Jump to content

Egon von Sturmberg

ONE WORLD FOR ALL PvPvE - UPDATE: DEV POST

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, globytheoldpirate said:

What could be a better reward than "Can't be raided" ?
Just build base in PvE, and get stuff in PvP
So you got both advantages 

PvP Players would not be safe in PvE zones. Stop bringing this up.

Quote

Got one man in friendly tribe, and put everything in his tribe.
So while you do PvP, your stuff is protected on the PvE friend. So you can't be raided at all, but you can raid others

Easy solution: PvP players can not ally PvE players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, krazmuze said:

 

"PVE area would have less resources and less profit."

Sorry all your pure PVE players just left your ideal PVP/PVE server.  The entire point for PVE players is to dominate the trade markets using only PVE means, your server would mean only PVP can dominate the trade markets.

Players who undertake more risk deserve more. Participation trophy gaming killed WoW and Runescape 3. If players want to leave for getting a little bit less than someone who is risking  losing everything AT ALL times... I dont know what to say.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

PvP Players would not be safe in PvE zones. Stop bringing this up.

Easy solution: PvP players can not ally PvE players.

You don't need "ally button" to do an ally ingame..
Just pass all the stuff/ressource through game by throwing on ground, then com' through discord


There is way too much possible exploit to get the system actually work


"Players who undertake more risk deserve more. Participation trophy gaming killed WoW and Runescape 3."
So you force people to play PvP while they don't want to

Edited by globytheoldpirate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Players who undertake more risk deserve more. Participation trophy gaming killed WoW and Runescape 3. If players want to leave for getting a little bit less than someone who is risking  losing everything AT ALL times... I dont know what to say.

I know what to say.... go play PVE......Oh! Wait, never mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

I know what to say.... go play PVE......Oh! Wait, never mind.

"Just stick to Empire Waterss, you cant be attacked and it has all the resources and there are lots of abandoned bases you can demolish raid! It's great!"

Such a terrible future.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The simpler solution would be to simply make the open world fully PvE, and make PvP instanced with matchmaking.

Gets rid of the need to have two separate code bases for the two different game types and wouldn't require a full redesign of the map to account for resources availability and discovery points, gets rid of offline raiding, base wiping, losing all your progress every night while you sleep, the need for mega-companies, doesn't restrict anyone to a portion of the map or content, and ensures that the people who want to PvP are able to find fights with people who are ready, willing and prepared to put up a fight.

With it being instanced, can even have different game types... Team deathmatch, king of the hill, battle royale, merchant escort missions, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't see a way that open-world PvP can remain a thing without all the issues that come with it. The only real way to solve them would be to overhaul how PvP works. I also don't see a viable way to have PvE and PvP players coexist without doing the same (and yes, I read that post and stand by my statement)

Edited by Kidori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kidori said:

Unfortunately, I don't see a way that open-world PvP can remain a thing without all the issues that come with it. The only real way to solve them would be to overhaul how PvP works. I also don't see a viable way to have PvE and PvP players coexist without doing the same (and yes, I read that post and stand by my statement)

I already covered such a system, and it doesn't change much at all over the current one. You could implement what I am suggesting in less than a week.  All of the fancy stuff to tie it together, like reputation and NPC Factions would be some work. Check it out.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

I already covered such a system, and it doesn't change much at all over the current one. You could implement what I am suggesting in less than a week.  All of the fancy stuff to tie it together, like reputation and NPC Factions would be some work. Check it out.
 

 

Yes, I've read that, and I stand by my statement. You have some nice ideas, they solve some issues but create others, many of which have already been mentioned here. It's a nice thought and I hope certain aspects do get implemented, but sadly I don't think it seems like a viable solution, and would require far too much work to implement (much, much more than a week)

Edited by Kidori
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not have the ability to declare your PvE/PvP intentions.  Back in the days of Star Wars Galaxies you could go to a recruiter and declare it.   Overt and covert as I recall.  Basically if you declared ready for PvP you were open game to anyone of the opposing faction who was also PvP declared.  This would keep PvE completely away from PvP but still on the same server unlimited.   Not sure how this would play into base raiding or building of bases.  Perhaps whole islands would need to declare. 

Just a thought to try and keep everyone happy on the same server. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Elmo said:

Why not have the ability to declare your PvE/PvP intentions.  Back in the days of Star Wars Galaxies you could go to a recruiter and declare it.   Overt and covert as I recall.  Basically if you declared ready for PvP you were open game to anyone of the opposing faction who was also PvP declared.  This would keep PvE completely away from PvP but still on the same server unlimited.   Not sure how this would play into base raiding or building of bases.  Perhaps whole islands would need to declare. 

Just a thought to try and keep everyone happy on the same server. 

That's pretty much what I have been suggesting... but in a very very distilled form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Kidori said:

Yes, I've read that, and I stand by my statement. You have some nice ideas, they solve some issues but create others, many of which have already been mentioned here. It's a nice thought and I hope certain aspects do get implemented, but sadly I don't think it seems like a viable solution, and would require far too much work to implement (much, much more than a week) 

Right. Well, I'm going to continue to advocate for a merged-platform. Along with its multiple code-bases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

 Wow that... is very entitled of you.

It sounds like you want to play single player.

 

what part of what he said is entitled?? he is voicing a very logical and example based concern, he sound as if he wants to play with people who has similar affinities as him (game wise) and i dont see whats the problem with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Right. Well, I'm going to continue to advocate for a merged-platform. Along with its multiple code-bases.

thats fine, you are free to defend your point but to be honest i still fail to see what value would that "merge"add to the game, rather i only see the need of more technical work added to the developers and more potentially annoying situatons if the pvp pve members are not properly separated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just no but hell no. I like some ideas but the  the private servers need to be left at that private servers.  We pay for the right to have a private server. We can mod it, designed it and do what we very well wish we can do to it and do it plus more.

Do you know what darkside server is? How will that server work forcing them into playing with everyone? Half if not more don't play public multiplayer. They only play games for RP. Do you know what RP servers are? Roleplay.... they are different and have a different set of rules vs public servers. So if you force them to play publicly you lose half if not more of them. Again they have over 25 servers that is a lot of money they pay who cares how they play? If they leave for another game because they pay to play the way they want but now taken away from them guess what? It isn't extra numbers added to public.

Also leave single player at that as well. If someone wants to play alone let them who cares. If someone wants to play the game alone and not multiplayer and you take that option away from them guess what they will play something else so you not goin to gain an extra person in seas trying to force them to play a specific way. If they leave for another game then you don't have them anyway so who cares if they playing solo.

...........

Now I do like the idea of pvp in the north and pve in the south. Also if they do this and set it up for say I'm at the bottom of the atlas map and cross into the next server that should put me at the top back on row 1A or what ever letter I'm on. (just goin to keep it at A location for the examples).  Instead I have a option to stay in pve or go into pvp. If I pick pvp it puts me on row 1A, if I pick pve then it puts me in the middle of the map at row 8A or whatever middle is. This would also help in travel time for those that been wanting to get to locations faster. It would definitely be one of many things they could do.

We already know they duplicate islands so I don't see an issue as long as the north and south have the same resources and one doesn't have something and the other doesn't besides players fighting one another. 

..........

Do I think they will do it? Nope i would imagine that they have hopes that when the game is more ready and gold that all servers will have lots of players and this wouldn't even be an issue. If at that time things don't look good then yes I could see it being a good possibility. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Ah. Yes. The ole "All young people are degenerates" routine.

 No, its more like you are unhappy that your neighbors are listening to music, drinking, and throwing up on their own couch. So, why have neighbors if you don't let them do their own thing?

 Splitting the playerbase up so that you can sail where you want with no risk and not deal with young people is super  entitled. Nor does it make sense because all of that smack talk and grief exists on PvE too. You also keep like, making the false correlation between PvP and age. I know a 96 year old who plays Rust and tangles with even the most teens... and he WINS.

Almost all of your complaints are age based. So, it really feels like to me that you have a gripe with young people... 

 

If you are feeling personally insulted by getting called out for entitlement, or obvious dislike for youngsters I really can't say anything but... please don't play online games, for your own sake.

More deliberate misunderstanding, more strawmen, more personal insults.  You are not making a good case for your idea.

I guess you don't agree that different age groups of people enjoy different things, and that the insanely hilarious joke of a 4 year old, ("Poopyhead! poopyhead!") will remain funny to you even into your old age, where you will trot it out at retirement dinners to entertain the guests.  Don't worry, if they dont' like it you can fall back on your excuse that it's perfectly possible for 70 year olds to yell poopyhead too, and that you heard Anderson doing it just last week back at the home.  (disclaimer: Nowhere should this be construed that it is a good idea to ban toddlers from yelling "Poopyhead!" at each other since it suits their age group and they find it funny, but rather an idea that it's just not very comfortable for those two groups to spend excessive time in each others' company.)

Here's an idea for you.  GS has already fiddled with various versions of pvp, so here's a great way to test your idea.  Convince them to turn one of the existing pvp servers into pvp/pve and see how it affects the player numbers, and what kinds of complaints start coming out of that arrangement.  If it works and attracts all kinds of new players to the game, great, I'd be happy about that.  If it doesn't , then you've not lost the few thousand players left playing who would all quit as the final straw.  Or convince them to allow character exports to the pvp servers (which is no different at all than allowing people to cross a zone line from a pve zone to a pvp zone)  But there's no reason to push the idea as some kind of global change when you can see there's so much opposition to it.  And there's really no reason to go around slamming pve players who play pve precisely because they want to stay away from pvp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, The D Legacy said:

thats fine, you are free to defend your point but to be honest i still fail to see what value would that "merge"add to the game, rather i only see the need of more technical work added to the developers and more potentially annoying situatons if the pvp pve members are not properly separated 

Are you a developer? Why do you think this going to be a massive change? It's already something that they  could implement in a few minutes by changing ini settings. Alot of you in this thread do not understand development. I have heard goofy things like "having to maintain two codebases"  or a million excuses about how difficult it will be to code said changes.

 

Quote

More deliberate misunderstanding, more strawmen, more personal insults.  You are not making a good case for your idea. 

I guess you don't agree that different age groups of people enjoy different things, and that the insanely hilarious joke of a 4 year old, ("Poopyhead! poopyhead!") will remain funny to you even into your old age, where you will trot it out at retirement dinners to entertain the guests.  Don't worry, if they dont' like it you can fall back on your excuse that it's perfectly possible for 70 year olds to yell poopyhead too, and that you heard Anderson doing it just last week back at the home.  (disclaimer: Nowhere should this be construed that it is a good idea to ban toddlers from yelling "Poopyhead!" at each other since it suits their age group and they find it funny, but rather an idea that it's just not very comfortable for those two groups to spend excessive time in each others' company.)


So let's say it's my birthday and I decide to throw a big cocktail party for it, and some idiot brings his 20 year old son and his friend who spend the entire thing drowning out the music yelling obscenities, chugging expensive booze and throwing up all over my house.

 The "old lady" also doesn't want to listen to a lot of teenagers threatening to <insert obscene vulgar action here> each other and yelling about who was griefing who and blah blah blah.  It's why you don't commonly see mature grownups hanging out with random large groups of kids on their days off.  (And vice versa)  Why push two very different groups like that together and force the one to have to deal with the other?  Because that's what happens...as Pegleg says...in this situation, the grownups have to shut down another part of the game. 

At this point, I am not trying to make a case for this idea to you personally. You are not a player who is interested in the MMO or social aspect of this game. That's okay, I get it, You don't like young people, and... I guess that's something that comes when you are older and forget that you were young once too. I understand how you could feel insulted by being told an opinion sounds entitled.

However, if you want to play the insult game; rather than just accusing me of insulting you we can do that.

 

 

3 hours ago, Winter Thorne said:

Here's an idea for you.  GS has already fiddled with various versions of pvp, so here's a great way to test your idea.  Convince them to turn one of the existing pvp servers into pvp/pve and see how it affects the player numbers, and what kinds of complaints start coming out of that arrangement.  If it works and attracts all kinds of new players to the game, great, I'd be happy about that.  If it doesn't , then you've not lost the few thousand players left playing who would all quit as the final straw.  Or convince them to allow character exports to the pvp servers (which is no different at all than allowing people to cross a zone line from a pve zone to a pvp zone)  But there's no reason to push the idea as some kind of global change when you can see there's so much opposition to it.  And there's really no reason to go around slamming pve players who play pve precisely because they want to stay away from pvp.

It is very obvious you did not read my suggestions in the least, Winter.

Jat did though.


👀

 

 

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Are you a developer? Why do you think this going to be a massive change? It's already something that they  could implement in a few minutes by changing ini settings. Alot of you in this thread do not understand development. I have heard goofy things like "having to maintain two codebases"  or a million excuses about how difficult it will be to code said changes.

 

then go ahead and develop a game, since it so simple, also dont put words in my mouth, did i ever said it would be a massive change??, no, you just made that up to divert the attention from the fact that you ran out of arguments, the only thing i see here is a guy who wants to impose his view on everybody else while not listening at all that everybody in this thread is against your proposal, if you are so fixated on it why dont you open up your own private server mr developer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

 

At this point, I am not trying to make a case for this idea to you personally. You are not a player who is interested in the MMO or social aspect of this game. That's okay, I get it, You don't like young people, and... I guess that's something that comes when you are older and forget that you were young once too. I understand how you could feel insulted by being told an opinion sounds entitled.

However, if you want to play the insult game; rather than just accusing me of insulting you we can do that.

It is very obvious you did not read my suggestions in the least, Winter.
 

I'll give this one last try after which I'll just have to give up if you can't manage to stop deliberately misunderstanding everything I say.

When you post your comments here, you are trying to make a case to everyone else who is reading the forums.  I'm one of those people, so I get to respond to it.  That's how the forums work.

No, you don't get it.  I like young people just fine, and If I weren't interested in the social aspects of the game I'd be playing single player.  I currently play in a zone with a good group of people, all the islands allied, all fun to hang out with and interesting in chat.   When you mix ages and backggrounds in crowds, people are expected to behave differently.  Lots of people "get" this.  Some don't.  It's much easier to run into the ones who don't on the pvp servers.  

I read your suggestions.  I also read the very first post of this thread which thinks it's a great idea to just squash all the existing servers onto one server, and I object to that.  Is there anything about your idea that can't be implemented by doing it on one pvp server?  I didn't see anything at all preventing that.  That's what I recommended you try for if you're going to try to sell this idea to the devs.  You'll get a lot less pushback from pve players who want no part of it , for one thing, and for another, it would get a real test before it's inflicted on an already diminished playerbase.    If you choose to do this, you might want to discuss that in the pvp forums just to make that clear.

If you'd like to respond to this, please respond to the actual points I've made rather than attempting to paint me as someone who hates young people, is not interested in social aspects of MMOs or whatever other personal remarks you'd like to toss out about a person you know nothing about.   If you continue to talk about ME rather than my ideas, I'm done, because

3 hours ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

 

At this point, I am not trying to make a case for this idea   don't need to justify myself  to you personally. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will not work and only cause more issues and rage online. I would not trust a PvP player in this game as I am sure others would agree.  Combining all the servers into one large globe will cause so many issues, I do not believe Atlas is equipped to handle. Imagine a PvE player trying to find resources for a legendary blueprint...where does he go when that PvP zone is closer to travel to get what he wants? Maybe I  don't understand you correctly but I would not want to look over my shoulder the whole time while traveling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, RipPaw said:

This will not work and only cause more issues and rage online. I would not trust a PvP player in this game as I am sure others would agree.  Combining all the servers into one large globe will cause so many issues, I do not believe Atlas is equipped to handle. Imagine a PvE player trying to find resources for a legendary blueprint...where does he go when that PvP zone is closer to travel to get what he wants? Maybe I  don't understand you correctly but I would not want to look over my shoulder the whole time while traveling.

True, most of PvErs don't want PvP at all.
The OP thread is good for unnoficial server (and there already is), but can't work on official.
Cause it will only be "PvP with rules that people don't follow"
This just add way too much exploits for PvP side, and don't solve problem at all 😕 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

No, you don't get it.  I like young people just fine...

If you'd like to respond to this, please respond to the actual points I've made rather than attempting to paint me as someone who hates young people,

 

Your complaints have all centered around age; or you have given age as examples. If you feel that I am not adequately understanding you; perhaps stop involving youngsters in your complaints.

 

 

1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

You'll get a lot less pushback from pve players who want no part of it , for one thing, and for another, it would get a real test before it's inflicted on an already diminished playerbase.    If you choose to do this, you might want to discuss that in the pvp forums just to make that clear. 

General Discussion is for everybody; PvE and PvP players. I am well aware there will be a lot of pushbaack. If the playerbase is already this diminished... (and waning) what is the harm in trying a change like this? There is nothing to lose at this point. I feel perturbed that yourself and others want to cling to the current system that is clearly not working.

 

 

1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

I'll give this one last try after which I'll just have to give up if you can't manage to stop deliberately misunderstanding everything I say.

It's not a deliberate misunderstanding. You have justified every complaint with "teenagers" and "idiot 20 year old." It reminds me of my HOA meetings that half are dedicated to listening bout complaints of brown people and eleven year olds on skateboards. If you can make an argument against a merged grid that doesn't involve how other people are playing the game around you... I'm all ears.

 

Hold, on... I know what you are about to say; and here's my rebuttal:

Why do you need the entire map to sail in? Even in the best conditions it takes eight hours to do a full loop if you wanted to go East to West. Even for a person who doesn't work, that's not a healthy amount of gaming. That's not even getting into the fact that the map is set up so that all the resources you need for mythics are within five tiles of you (this is also why lots of private servers are 5x5s.)  The map can and should be modified so strict PvE players never have to go into PvP areas.

Being affected by PvP events: Allright, let's assume someone brings their war to your front door; you have to leave game chat for a bit. Now your grid is littered with corpses and dead boats for YOU to salvage. Do you not like free stuff? Think about how that war will stuff your tax bank. Think about the people you'll meet. You might actually find lots of us PvP players are older than you think. Don't go by what the worst people do.

With this being said, I find it very saddening that you aren't willing to make simple concessions like muting chat and avoiding PvP zones. From where I am standing avoiding a scary zone or annoying players has zero impact on your enjoyment of the game. I help run a server with this set up... none of our PvE players have the problems you are worried about.

 

1 hour ago, Winter Thorne said:

When you mix ages and backggrounds in crowds, people are expected to behave differently.  Lots of people "get" this.  Some don't. 

YIKES, CAPTAIN

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RipPaw said:

This will not work and only cause more issues and rage online. I would not trust a PvP player in this game as I am sure others would agree.  Combining all the servers into one large globe will cause so many issues, I do not believe Atlas is equipped to handle. Imagine a PvE player trying to find resources for a legendary blueprint...where does he go when that PvP zone is closer to travel to get what he wants? Maybe I  don't understand you correctly but I would not want to look over my shoulder the whole time while traveling. 


Well do you want convenience or safety? You could save yourself five minutes by going into dangerous waters; or stay in safe waters and eat the extra five minutes.

 

16 minutes ago, globytheoldpirate said:

True, most of PvErs don't want PvP at all.
The OP thread is good for unnoficial server (and there already is), but can't work on official.
Cause it will only be "PvP with rules that people don't follow"
This just add way too much exploits for PvP side, and don't solve problem at all 😕 

 

Why does it work on unofficial but not official? What's the difference?

Why can't GrapeShot make the game so people can't brreak rules?

PvP exploits wouldnt be solved by updating the map to begin with. People already move stuff between island raid timers.
 

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, PeglegTheAngry said:

Why does it work on unofficial but not official? What's the difference?

Why can't GrapeShot make the game so people can't brreak rules?

PvP exploits wouldnt be solved by updating the map to begin with. People already move stuff between island raid timers.
 

Because on unofficial you can ban people because you don't like his attitude.
Like, people told us that you guys was using an exploit, so we ban you.
Do every people that used exploit where ban on official ? No cuz' that's different.
You can't ban people because you don't like their behavior

And there is 2 differents populations on off/non
On non-off people tend to play more for fun than "be the best"
So less tend to break rules/exploits.
While it's totally the case in official

How do you prevent PvP to use their PvE friends ? How do you prevent PvE side to be the shield of PvP ? Hiding ressource/tames and all.

Edited by globytheoldpirate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, globytheoldpirate said:

Because on unofficial you can ban people because you don't like his attitude.
Like, people told us that you guys was using an exploit, so we ban you.
Do every people that used exploit where ban on official ? No cuz' that's different.
You can't ban people because you don't like their behavior

How do you prevent PvP to use their PvE friends ? How do you prevent PvE side to be the shield of PvP ? Hiding ressource/tames and all. 

I haven't banned anyone in the six months I've been helping to run a server. Banning people because you don't like them is a bad way to run a server.

Exploiting is as bad on unofficial as it is on official, and since everyone does it to some extent I can't punish anyone for it, neither can GS. Its too early on in development.

 

Quote

How do you prevent PvP to use their PvE friends ? How do you prevent PvE side to be the shield of PvP ? Hiding ressource/tames and all

A lot of programming changes can be done to prevent this. Don't think of the game as it is now. Think of it two years from now.

Edited by PeglegTheAngry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×