Devs; why do you keep rolling over the small company & solo player?

[DannyUK 308]

1 hour ago, Senkoau said:

I just want to add to the discussion that I'm going on holiday next month. The flight alone is nearly a day in duration with changeovers and then I'm at a convention doing things so for about a week I wouldn't be able to play. I'm only doing single player at the moment but if I were on official this would leave me pretty certain everything would be gone when I got back or feeling forced to play.

Some of the PvE players have moved to single player myself included, don't blame them either. The rest of them have quit the game altogether and some remain on PvE. I remember playing from day 1, I enjoyed the interaction with other companies, you hardly get that now.

I have to say I don't get the same enjoyment out of it like I once did, maybe the novelty is wearing off? I hope they turn this game around but I just don't see it myself, they don't seem to know where to go with it and that is not good in itself.

[Martyn 246]

Yeh I've been exploring islands on na pve, A8 to D8 and now D9 backtowards A9, before crossing over to O9 and N9.  I haven't seen a single active base yet.  Many have just opened their doors.. and left.  Some even unclaimed tames or partially destroyed their bases..

In our company more have quit.. nearly double the number of people joining. 

Maybe if we hadn't played Ark.. or maybe it is the flag system or something else.  I have a whole list of issues with Atlas, Ark.. and many other games.  But it doesn't stop me playing.  Even tho I know the game is going nowhere.

[Archsenex 309]

For us it's mostly lack of content.  Hence the new big pve content not being on official is disappointing.  They could add them to golden age and freeports and not let people claim them etc

[Realist 504]

4 hours ago, Martyn said:

Yeh I've been exploring islands on na pve, A8 to D8 and now D9 backtowards A9, before crossing over to O9 and N9.  I haven't seen a single active base yet.  Many have just opened their doors.. and left.  Some even unclaimed tames or partially destroyed their bases..

In our company more have quit.. nearly double the number of people joining. 

Maybe if we hadn't played Ark.. or maybe it is the flag system or something else.  I have a whole list of issues with Atlas, Ark.. and many other games.  But it doesn't stop me playing.  Even tho I know the game is going nowhere.

Yeah it’s claims. It just is.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

No response yet, shame.

It's funny how the stationed NPC crew being able to repair structures was immediately reverted because the players stated why it was bad. Was there a need for immediate revert, not really, but it was good to see a quick reaction. Really the end result should have been figured out before it hit the official servers.

But when a new patch is implemented that gives PvE a nuke to wipe islands, there's no immediate pulling of the patch.

How can anyone on the team believe that providing a nuke in PvE is acceptable for PvE?

This image literally shows what someone on PvE is now capable of.

This has to be the worst decision for PvE ever.

So why is it always the players that instantly know it is a bad thing when they read something in the patch notes or captain's log? You don't even have to play the game to know giving the ability to wipe islands in PvE is absolutely wrong.

[Winter Thorne 696]

20 hours ago, Dollie said:

I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

If this was how island ownership always worked, then in the future if you anticipate the servers will be fully loaded again, how are new players ever supposed to find an island to claim?  And what would be the reason for putting in the raze in the first place if you expect the tenants will just start paying the upkeep?

If this is not how island ownership will always work (passing from landlord to tenant) then all the problems people have anticipated will happen.

In addition,  the idea that tenants will just start paying the upkeep into the flag is a bad one, even if they can manage to do that.  The tenant would have all the costs of maintaining the island with none of the benefits of owning it.  They can't use the materials deposited into the flag, or use it to pay their crews.  They can't demolish unwanted structures within 24 hours.  Can't name the island, etc.  Even if it was always possible for them to pay for the flag, it's not a great idea.

 

It looks like the only good use of this new mechanic is when someone wants to claim a previously claimed island that has abandoned tenant structures on it.  But the game already takes care of that problem with the decay mechanic, so what's the point?

[Martyn 246]

21 hours ago, DannyUK said:

There is no peacetime on PvE, as I understand it there is no warnings about it. They wanted people to leave lawless and go onto claimable islands, so many people did and said ok I will try it.

These people have settled there, built everything up and island changes hands, they wipe everything off it, how is that fair to those people? It isn't.

Not everyone is going to be a troll though but you just know many will do this and claim islands to do it for the laughs. This is why I always stayed on lawless, I never trusted this idea of claimable islands 1 bit. They seriously need to change course on this one I think, maybe not for PvP but PvE yes.

 

@Jatheish @Dollie please reconsider this option for PvE

This is a ridiculous stance.

A settlement owner might talk to it's tenants... esp on pve. Discussing what will be broken or not.

You take the stance that because someone could do something, then noone can be trusted not to.

It also allows for redundant buildings to be removed, en mass.  Surely another right of the owner?

Esp since new owners do not actually get 24 hours to remove other peoples stuff, they only get 24 hours to remove stuff that has been placed in the last 24 hours since they took over.  Everything older than that cannot be removed.  On pve this is.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

2 minutes ago, Martyn said:

This is a ridiculous stance.

A settlement owner might talk to it's tenants... esp on pve. Discussing what will be broken or not.

You take the stance that because someone could do something, then noone can be trusted not to.

It also allows for redundant buildings to be removed, en mass.  Surely another right of the owner?

Esp since new owners do not actually get 24 hours to remove other peoples stuff, they only get 24 hours to remove stuff that has been placed in the last 24 hours since they took over.  Everything older than that cannot be removed.  On pve this is.

A ridiculous stance is giving PvE players a nuke.

Can you explain how allowing a player, yourself for example, the ability to wipe all structures from other players on an island is considered PvE?

Because to me that is a player wiping other players, which is player vs player. I understand that one player owns the island and they have more rights than tenants, but they should not be able to wipe entire islands in PvE.

Unless you can clearly demonstrate how players wiping other players in PvE is considered PvE then this whole new ability should not be allowed at all.

[Martyn 246]

21 hours ago, MeatSammich said:

So, first, we have unlimited claim flags - which sucked and resulted in a few companies eating up half the map, and people clamored for limiting claim flags...so they gave us whole island claiming with a gold sink instead.

Then everyone said the hell with it, we'll set up in lawless, since the whole world is basically lawless - so they started talking about setting up accelerated structure decay in lawless to make bases there unfeasible.

Then we decide to move to claimable islands, without claiming them, since after 24 hours your stuff was safe, even if someone claimed the island afterwards - so they give anyone with a half days worth of treasure maps the ability to completely level an island in 72 hrs.

 

I know that we on PVE generally feel shat upon by most changes, as they seem to mostly address PVP specific problems, but this one is...special.  There's no PVP related issue, other than people having to manually go around and demo structures there.  - This is purely the devs looking at a uniquely PVE related issue and saying the hell with it, scorched earth it is - kinda like when they couldn't figure out a way to stop overweight griefing and turned our ships into glue traps.

 

I feel bad for anyone living on any claimable islands, because there is a 100% chance of people with hundreds of thousands of gold in the banks already, whose sole purpose in life for the next few weeks will be to go around to every unclaimed island, claim it, wait 3 days, level it, and unclaim it/let the claim expire to free up their points...rinse, and repeat. And all the while, those of us who were content to be settlers, and didn't want to spend all our time doing treasure maps to pay for upkeep get 3 choices  - Hope our landlords pay the rent, Move back to lawless and hope the structure decay doesnt happen, or Bend over and take it with a smile.

I understand the sentiments, the griefing side is already and has already been done to a degree.  Our company had an unofficial home on K4 Na Pve.. Chinese players came along and started griefing with foundation and signpost spam.. everywhere, coming upto people and making threats over voice coms etc.  We complained, a few days later they come back, apologised, removed some of the spam.  Then they bought the island.. and spammed it with galleons.. so many in fact, that trying to move around the island was like trying to walk in treacle.. but it was their island.   We're spent the last few weeks removing everything. 

It is true that in the 48 hours people have to remove their stuff.. most established players won't be able to do so.. they'll simply have too much stuff..

But that really actually doesn't matter.  It isn't their island.  The owner should have every right and ability.

 

[DannyUK 308]

6 minutes ago, Martyn said:

This is a ridiculous stance.

A settlement owner might talk to it's tenants... esp on pve. Discussing what will be broken or not.

You take the stance that because someone could do something, then noone can be trusted not to.

It also allows for redundant buildings to be removed, en mass.  Surely another right of the owner?

Esp since new owners do not actually get 24 hours to remove other peoples stuff, they only get 24 hours to remove stuff that has been placed in the last 24 hours since they took over.  Everything older than that cannot be removed.  On pve this is.

Yes but you don't play PvE you play PvP and you are trying to bring what you know over into PvE.

You really think people are just going to use this nicely? I'm not against this idea of wiping islands but only on PvP which is where it belongs, not PvE. You're always going to have people troll with it, and it's a huge weapon to damage legitimate players with when they spend all their time building their things up, months and within a second it's gone.

You might not be so bothered about losing stuff because you play PvP but us who play PvE have come here for a reason and it isn't to be wiped at the push of a button.

I'm not a fan of the claim idea to begin with, I think it's catered towards large companies, I'm a 1 man company and I have no desire to enter into a large company. I think claiming islands is the wrong move but it is what it is right now.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

Just now, DannyUK said:

Yes but you don't play PvE you play PvP and you are trying to bring what you know over into PvE.

You really think people are just going to use this nicely? I'm not against this idea of wiping islands but only on PvP which is where it belongs, not PvE. You're always going to have people troll with it, and it's a huge weapon to damage legitimate players with when they spend all their time building their things up, months and within a second it's gone.

You might not be so bothered about losing stuff because you play PvP but us who play PvE have come here for a reason and it isn't to be wiped at the push of a button.

I'm not a fan of the claim idea to begin with, I think it's catered towards large companies, I'm a 1 man company and I have no desire to enter into a large company. I think claiming islands is the wrong move but it is what it is right now.

I've told him enough times that it doesn't belong in PvE because it is one player wiping other players which clearly is a PvP mechanic.

But the dude doesn't like me so he ignores all my posts and never responds to me. I've asked him before to explain how it is a PvE mechanic when players are wiping players, he ignores it because he has no answer.

Unless you play Atlas every day like him you have no right to an opinion.

[Martyn 246]

1 minute ago, DannyUK said:

Yes but you don't play PvE you play PvP and you are trying to bring what you know over into PvE.

You really think people are just going to use this nicely? I'm not against this idea of wiping islands but only on PvP which is where it belongs, not PvE. You're always going to have people troll with it, and it's a huge weapon to damage legitimate players with when they spend all their time building their things up, months and within a second it's gone.

You might not be so bothered about losing stuff because you play PvP but us who play PvE have come here for a reason and it isn't to be wiped at the push of a button.

I'm not a fan of the claim idea to begin with, I think it's catered towards large companies, I'm a 1 man company and I have no desire to enter into a large company. I think claiming islands is the wrong move but it is what it is right now.

So based on the fact that "you" play solo.. everyone else is the bad guy? The game content is for teamplay.. doesn't matter if it's 50 solos or one company.  Your inability to get along with others is your fault, not theirs.   Your paranoia over what you think people will do.. isn't a fact.  It's just a guess.

I play pve btw.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

Just now, Martyn said:

So based on the fact that "you" play solo.. everyone else is the bad guy? The game content is for teamplay.. doesn't matter if it's 50 solos or one company.  Your inability to get along with others is your fault, not theirs.   Your paranoia over what you think people will do.. isn't a fact.  It's just a guess.

I play pve btw.

PvE is not player vs player.

Player wiping player is PvP.

But keep on ignoring me.

Just now, Martyn said:

Your paranoia over what you think people will do.. isn't a fact.  It's just a guess.

Like your paranoia over things that people can't do? Like when they allowed people to base on other people's ships and you worried yourself that people could use your beds to fast travel to your ship.

We aren't paranoid here, we know what players will do, it is only a matter of time.

[Winter Thorne 696]

4 minutes ago, Martyn said:

 

But that really actually doesn't matter.  It isn't their island.  The owner should have every right and ability.

 

Not in this system.  If everyone had the opportunity to own land, then yes, landowners should have full control over what they own.  But they didn't give everyone that opportunity.  Instead, they've asked some of the players to just be content with being tenants and promised them they could "build anywhere".  Now the "build anywhere" is a lie, and owners get full control, but you don't get to be an owner unless you were one of the first onto the server.

Unfair.  Uneven.  Completely turns off anyone who might be considering starting the game.

[Martyn 246]

1 minute ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I've told him enough times that it doesn't belong in PvE because it is one player wiping other players which clearly is a PvP mechanic.

But the dude doesn't like me so he ignores all my posts and never responds to me. I've asked him before to explain how it is a PvE mechanic when players are wiping players, he ignores it because he has no answer.

Unless you play Atlas every day like him you have no right to an opinion.

You're right, I have you on ignore.

Ones ability to remove another players buildings on a one off occasion is not pvp.  Pvp.. is ones ability to kill other players, all the time.  And smash their stuff and steal it.

It's common sense, in fact most of the stuff you spew your rubbish about is common sense, which is why I ignore you.  You are simply incapable of coherent thought processes.

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

Just now, Martyn said:

You're right, I have you on ignore.

Ones ability to remove another players buildings on a one off occasion is not pvp.  Pvp.. is ones ability to kill other players, all the time.  And smash their stuff and steal it.

It's common sense, in fact most of the stuff you spew your rubbish about is common sense, which is why I ignore you.  You are simply incapable of coherent thought processes.

It is PvP because it is NOT a one time action is it.

[Martyn 246]

1 minute ago, Winter Thorne said:

Not in this system.  If everyone had the opportunity to own land, then yes, landowners should have full control over what they own.  But they didn't give everyone that opportunity.  Instead, they've asked some of the players to just be content with being tenants and promised them they could "build anywhere".  Now the "build anywhere" is a lie, and owners get full control, but you don't get to be an owner unless you were one of the first onto the server.

Unfair.  Uneven.  Completely turns off anyone who might be considering starting the game.

By anyone.. you mean you. 

[[GP] Guybrush Threepwood 626]

Just now, Martyn said:

You're right, I have you on ignore.

I thought so, but when i'm helpful like telling you in your treasure map thread that although it is 2x weekend it is NOT 2x gold weekend you'll miss all the useful stuff.

[Martyn 246]

8 minutes ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

It is PvP because it is NOT a one time action is it.

It is a one time action, per island.  Do you really think, on pve, people will waste their own time to just release themselves from island ownership every few days to grief everyone on a given island?

And that because someone "could do it" noone can be trusted to have the keys?

You don't even realise you're insulting 99% of land owners.. do you.

pvp is 24/7 pve is not. The ability to remove someones buildings is not pvp.  It's pve.  The ability to grief someone is not necessarily pvp.  Unless that griefing involves actually killing them.

You could argue that building your house where someone else wanted to build theirs is pvp or that parking your ship in someone elses ship parking zone is pvp.. but it really isn't.

Pvp.. is killing other players only.

Griefing is being a tit.

Pve is versus environment.. which includes other peoples stuff sometimes.  Esp the 500 locked animal traps.. which is pvp if you think about it.. since the only way a player can get out of a locked trap.. is to kill themselves or use a grapple etc if they have one.  But it doesn't get their tame out.  I've now seen dozens of tames in other peoples traps.  Some ran in by accident, others lagged in.. all are stuck.  Landowners should have the right to remove this stuff.  But if it was made more than 24 hours before they took over.. they can't.

And an estabilished landowner is not going to wipe their own base loosing all their own assets just to grief everyone on it.   As for them doing this on every island.. let them.. you can keep your more precious stuff on your ships.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Martyn

[Winter Thorne 696]

9 minutes ago, Martyn said:

Completely turns off anyone who might be considering starting the game.

 

9 minutes ago, Martyn said:

By anyone.. you mean you. 

 

That's some serious reading comprehension problem, Martyn.

[DannyUK 308]

11 minutes ago, Martyn said:

So based on the fact that "you" play solo.. everyone else is the bad guy? The game content is for teamplay.. doesn't matter if it's 50 solos or one company.  Your inability to get along with others is your fault, not theirs.   Your paranoia over what you think people will do.. isn't a fact.  It's just a guess.

I play pve btw.

It shouldn't matter if I'm solo or not this idea or mechanic is a PvP thing not PvE when are you going to realise this? Someone who has put alot of time into building their base or structures and everything is gone in an instant you would be ok with that would you?

You say you play PvE so someone coming onto an island where you have alot of stuff, you goto work or do other life commitments come back and find everything gone, you would be ok with this? Very much doubt it because it's player vs environment not player vs player.

Where did I say I don't get along with others exactly? I interact with many companies and allies, I don't have to be in a large company to get on with people, I get on with them in game just fine. We will soon see how your "guess" works out in the coming days and weeks then.

[Martyn 246]

1 minute ago, Winter Thorne said:

 

 

That's some serious reading comprehension problem, Martyn.

Nothing wrong with my comprehension.  You think it turns people off, because it turns you off.  In fact, it might even turn people on.  Just because you don't get turned on by it.. doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

Innuendo not intended.

[Martyn 246]

12 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

It shouldn't matter if I'm solo or not this idea or mechanic is a PvP thing not PvE when are you going to realise this? Someone who has put alot of time into building their base or structures and everything is gone in an instant you would be ok with that would you?

You say you play PvE so someone coming onto an island where you have alot of stuff, you goto work or do other life commitments come back and find everything gone, you would be ok with this? Very much doubt it because it's player vs environment not player vs player.

Where did I say I don't get along with others exactly? I interact with many companies and allies, I don't have to be in a large company to get on with people, I get on with them in game just fine. We will soon see how your "guess" works out in the coming days and weeks then.

For a start.. you get 48 hours.  Plenty of time to realise you're not on the island with your old landowner on it, to remove your bps/gold etc to a galleon.  To put your tames near the water to be picked up later.. plenty of time to start to organise leaving.

And I've already been in this position, in fact several times, which is why I am now in a company of other "solo" players.. we do our own thing.  But if we want to help each other we can do that too.  We own several islands now.  There are that many of us.

You don't need to be alone to play solo.

The mechanic is not pvp.  It is anti spam if anything.  Yes you could grief a current player with it.. but if you moved into an island noone else lived on.. covered in the spam of several late and retired players.. you're not allowed to remove their stuff? As soon as you take ownership, it doesn't expire.. even if it is beyond 10 days.. it still doesn't expire.  Instead it says "you can demolish this" "no damage it is protected"

When the game first started people used overlap to steal their land.. I lost several bases due to this "bug". Or poor design.  I am still playing Atlas.. didn't quit.  Since then people have stolen my pve base by challenging my claim.. apparently you only need to wait 6 hours or so to do it and you can do it on any island.  Not that I've tried.  I'm not that kind of person.  It could be false information.

I agree that the system isn't perfect and I have made suggestions in other threads how to introduce a better system, imho grapecard seem more interested in creating a griefer game than they are in making a good game or a decent upstanding game or a fair pvp game or any other game where people might treat each other with respect.. they enable you to take players prisoner, to hang them to chop their heads off to force feed them poo to degrade them with voice threats and sexual harrassment.. you cannot ignore, without ignoring everyone who wants to talk to you.

But we bought the game.  So we're kinda to blame for anything that can be done, because we bought the game.. If you're really so upset.. stop playing the game, don't comment on it.. go play something else, that's more suited to your way of thinking.  Leave those of us who are willing to put our feelings aside get on with it.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Martyn

[DannyUK 308]

2 minutes ago, Martyn said:

For a start.. you get 48 hours.  Plenty of time to realise you're not on the island with your old landowner on it, to remove your bps/gold etc to a galleon.  To put your tames near the water to be picked up later.. plenty of time to start to organise leaving.

And I've already been in this position, in fact several times, which is why I am now in a company of other "solo" players.. we do our own thing.  But if we want to help each other we can do that too.  We own several islands now.  There are that many of us.

You don't need to be alone to play solo.

Yes so we go down the route of settling on an island and you're given 48hr eviction notice? They want more people to settle on these islands, they did, some came off lawless and went there I stayed where I was on lawless, glad I did but now they give players the rights to say pack up your stuff because everything will be gone.

Many of them were relieved after the time period was up when they settled there because they knew they could live in peace without trolls coming in to demolish it. They are moving the wrong way if they want people to settle on these islands now. Why should people move all their belongings onto ships? It's just not logical to put this feature into PvE and as I said before PvP I would certainly agree with it.

I'm not alone, you don't have to be in a big company either, just use allied function. If you are playing alone in a big company I hope you trust them enough with all your things because i've been there and done that before, another story but anyway I'm quite happy to play solo but working with other companies.

[Realist 504]

3 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

No response yet, shame.

It's funny how the stationed NPC crew being able to repair structures was immediately reverted because the players stated why it was bad. Was there a need for immediate revert, not really, but it was good to see a quick reaction. Really the end result should have been figured out before it hit the official servers.

But when a new patch is implemented that gives PvE a nuke to wipe islands, there's no immediate pulling of the patch.

How can anyone on the team believe that providing a nuke in PvE is acceptable for PvE?

This image literally shows what someone on PvE is now capable of.

This has to be the worst decision for PvE ever.

So why is it always the players that instantly know it is a bad thing when they read something in the patch notes or captain's log? You don't even have to play the game to know giving the ability to wipe islands in PvE is absolutely wrong.

Yep, this would be one of those times lol