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Darkweaver

Devs; why do you keep rolling over the small company & solo player?

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Very telling tweet from @Dollie   Apparently, tenants are supposed to be able to lock their landlords into island ownership, and can pay the claim upkeep on their behalf, preventing the landlords claim from expiring.  Or... she doesn't know how the system works.  One of those.

Replying to @GamerPerfection

Thanks for the link, I've been reading over the posts. I'm still not following on the island owner quitting thing - settlers can maintain the original claim themselves by paying upkeep and ensuring no one else can claim.

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So, first, we have unlimited claim flags - which sucked and resulted in a few companies eating up half the map, and people clamored for limiting claim flags...so they gave us whole island claiming with a gold sink instead.

Then everyone said the hell with it, we'll set up in lawless, since the whole world is basically lawless - so they started talking about setting up accelerated structure decay in lawless to make bases there unfeasible.

Then we decide to move to claimable islands, without claiming them, since after 24 hours your stuff was safe, even if someone claimed the island afterwards - so they give anyone with a half days worth of treasure maps the ability to completely level an island in 72 hrs.

 

I know that we on PVE generally feel shat upon by most changes, as they seem to mostly address PVP specific problems, but this one is...special.  There's no PVP related issue, other than people having to manually go around and demo structures there.  - This is purely the devs looking at a uniquely PVE related issue and saying the hell with it, scorched earth it is - kinda like when they couldn't figure out a way to stop overweight griefing and turned our ships into glue traps.

 

I feel bad for anyone living on any claimable islands, because there is a 100% chance of people with hundreds of thousands of gold in the banks already, whose sole purpose in life for the next few weeks will be to go around to every unclaimed island, claim it, wait 3 days, level it, and unclaim it/let the claim expire to free up their points...rinse, and repeat. And all the while, those of us who were content to be settlers, and didn't want to spend all our time doing treasure maps to pay for upkeep get 3 choices  - Hope our landlords pay the rent, Move back to lawless and hope the structure decay doesnt happen, or Bend over and take it with a smile.

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I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

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Just now, Dollie said:

I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

How are we supposed to pay for the claim?  We have access to the owner's flag?  We can prevent them from unclaiming when they decide to move to another island or quit?

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7 minutes ago, Archsenex said:

How are we supposed to pay for the claim?  We have access to the owner's flag?  We can prevent them from unclaiming when they decide to move to another island or quit?

You can't place gold in the flag? You should be able to. 

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3 minutes ago, Dollie said:

I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

 

1 minute ago, Archsenex said:

How are we supposed to pay for the claim?  We have access to the owner's flag?  We can prevent them from unclaiming when they decide to move to another island or quit?

In addition, even if there is a way for settlers to pay for someone else's claim, a lot of us are settlers because we don't want the hassle of having to do treasure maps to get the gold to pay the island upkeep - even more so after the changes to the AoD being invulnerable to half the damn weapons in the game.

This was one of the original things brought up back when they gold cost was introduced. Why wasn't it made so that the upkeep cost was set up as X amount of resources per day, that way the settlers taxed harvesting would automatically pay for the island, without the owner having to win the lottery of having a good treasure map spawn or two on their island.

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Dollie said:

I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

Dollie, if we (landowning company) would quit and certainly if I was the last to quit, then we would clean up before leaving the final time. As the settlers on our island don't actually communicate with us/me I would not even know how to warn them.

Also, this is more likely to happen during a holiday ... with even less opportunity for communication.

Edited by wandelaar

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Just now, Dollie said:

You can't place gold in the flag? You should be able to. 

I'd love to test this for you, but the landlords I know all put walls around their flags etc.  I suppose I could get a pick and try and break my way in to see if I can pay for their flag.

Still doesn't help if your landlord decides to drop their flag.  And we don't get a warning "hey, bill stopped paying for his flag, you need to take over"

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Just now, Archsenex said:

I'd love to test this for you, but the landlords I know all put walls around their flags etc.  I suppose I could get a pick and try and break my way in to see if I can pay for their flag.

Still doesn't help if your landlord decides to drop their flag.  And we don't get a warning "hey, bill stopped paying for his flag, you need to take over"

Hmm that's a good point. It's something I'll discuss with the team. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dollie said:

You can't place gold in the flag? You should be able to. 

Please explain how this is achievable if the flag is you know, walled off or inside the base?

 

Lets put it another way. Lets say someone decides to quit. Before they quit they either give the island to a friend or sell it to someone. The owner decides to remove the flag, therefore no more upkeep, and the new owner instantly places a claim. They claim the island. 48 hours later they wipe the entire island.

Now lets say that happened over a weekend, when i'm, you know doing other life stuff. I return to find my base and everything got wiped in a PvE environment by another griefing player?

And also, whenever I do treasure maps on the island i'm on, I contribute based on tax, but now you are expecting us all to pay into the flag in case the owner, I don't know randomly decides to quit to prevent someone taking the island?

I'm still wondering how this player wiping islands is considered PvE.

Edited by [GP] Guybrush Threepwood
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1 minute ago, Dollie said:

Hmm that's a good point. It's something I'll discuss with the team. 

Hell, I don't even know WHERE most of the flags are on these islands.  Some of them are pretty big.

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1 minute ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

The map shows where the claim flag is located.

Huh, so it does.

 

And yes, it does look like you can deposit coins into their flags.  This... probably should have been announced.

So now you just need to 

A) Prevent them from EVER being walled off

and

B) Prevent them from EVER being voluntarily unclaimed.  Once you place a claim flag, it will stay, no matter what, until it runs out of coins.

Oh.. and landlords can't be able to pull coins out of their flags.  If the tenants decide to force them to hold the island, then they can't pull out the coins in order to ghetto unclaim.

 

AND you have to turn off the "pay your crew from the flag" feature.  For same.

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9 minutes ago, Dollie said:

You can't place gold in the flag? You should be able to. 

Even if they do that, the 10 day PvE Timer will run out and anyone can come along and drop the flag. Which leads to only one stack of each item stored in the flag being dropped btw, another bug. 30k gold turned into one stack on 1k gold. Gold in the flag doesn't keep it from being de-claimable after 10 days of the owner being offline. Please reconsider this, it is not thought trough at all.

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Just now, Archsenex said:

Huh, so it does.

 

And yes, it does look like you can deposit coins into their flags.  This... probably should have been announced.

So now you just need to 

A) Prevent them from EVER being walled off

and

B) Prevent them from EVER being voluntarily unclaimed.  Once you place a claim flag, it will stay, no matter what, until it runs out of coins.

Oh.. and landlords can't be able to pull coins out of their flags.  If the tenants decide to force them to hold the island, then they can't pull out the coins in order to ghetto unclaim.

 

AND you have to turn off the "pay your crew from the flag" feature.  For same.

No, they need to stop giving players in PvE a nuke to wipe others. This is PvE.

Just because there is a spam issue that the Devs struggle to resolve doesn't mean the players should be held accountable for it or become victims of others wiping them.

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1 minute ago, Archsenex said:

 If the tenants decide to force them to hold the island, then they can't pull out the coins in order to ghetto unclaim. 

Lol. You think only tennants move? Leave landowners the right to move (and repurpose their island points) ... especially if the tennants s**k.

😉

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Just now, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

No, they need to stop giving players in PvE a nuke to wipe others. This is PvE.

Just because there is a spam issue that the Devs struggle to resolve doesn't mean the players should be held accountable for it or become victims of others wiping them.

The suggestion was intended to be Hyperbole.  I agree, the nuke doesn't make sense.  It's a complete 180 on months of design assurances about land ownership changes.

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28 minutes ago, MeatSammich said:

So, first, we have unlimited claim flags - which sucked and resulted in a few companies eating up half the map, and people clamored for limiting claim flags...so they gave us whole island claiming with a gold sink instead.

Then everyone said the hell with it, we'll set up in lawless, since the whole world is basically lawless - so they started talking about setting up accelerated structure decay in lawless to make bases there unfeasible.

Then we decide to move to claimable islands, without claiming them, since after 24 hours your stuff was safe, even if someone claimed the island afterwards - so they give anyone with a half days worth of treasure maps the ability to completely level an island in 72 hrs.

 

I know that we on PVE generally feel shat upon by most changes, as they seem to mostly address PVP specific problems, but this one is...special.  There's no PVP related issue, other than people having to manually go around and demo structures there.  - This is purely the devs looking at a uniquely PVE related issue and saying the hell with it, scorched earth it is - kinda like when they couldn't figure out a way to stop overweight griefing and turned our ships into glue traps.

 

I feel bad for anyone living on any claimable islands, because there is a 100% chance of people with hundreds of thousands of gold in the banks already, whose sole purpose in life for the next few weeks will be to go around to every unclaimed island, claim it, wait 3 days, level it, and unclaim it/let the claim expire to free up their points...rinse, and repeat. And all the while, those of us who were content to be settlers, and didn't want to spend all our time doing treasure maps to pay for upkeep get 3 choices  - Hope our landlords pay the rent, Move back to lawless and hope the structure decay doesnt happen, or Bend over and take it with a smile.

Preach on brother. Preacher meet choir 

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@Dollie @Jatheish

Honestly, if the sight of other people offends somebody so much, and they insist on having a nice, big island all to themself... Play singleplayer.  If they want to still play with their friends.. play the new non-dedicated multiplayer.  You're adding two whole game modes for these people.

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At the end of the day any new claim mechanic regarding claims is a case of damned if you do damned if you don't.they are obviously trying to please people with the changes but it doesn't seem they can see a clear way to please the majority.and the more they are trying, the more complicated the claims are becoming.You used to just stick down a flag and wait.Conan exiles is a much smaller map and they just have a build boundary,which works better than a lot of ideas i've seen.Yeh people will still grief cos that's what some people do,but in the main it works ok.Making it more complicated isn't the best way forward.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Dollie said:

I'm reading over the threads on this topic and taking the various opinions on board. As always, we're open to feedback.

I'm a little confused on one specific aspect in relation to PvE brought up by a couple of posters though. I've seen examples of an island owner leaving or going awol and thus leaving settlers open to being wiped. Wouldn't those settlers just continue to pay the upkeep on the claim to keep it secure in that case? (aside from waiting to jump and claim it themselves of course). I'm not quite understanding how people can just "lose" a claim. 

Ways an island can be lost:

- Flag is in an unaccessible area, tenants are unable to put gold in to keep it going

- 10-day activity timer for the owner expires and someone else can place a flag

- Owner decides to move, empties flag and removes it

- Owner decides owning an island is costing them too much time and gold, decides to sell the island to someone else

- Someone in the owner's company doesn't understand how it works and takes gold from the flag to pay their crew (happened to us)

- Owner doesn't do their math properly and their crew eats through more gold than they anticipated

- Owner gets into an argument with a tenant, picks flag up when everyone is offline and places it back down to get the raze timer, everyone else is collateral damage

- Two companies merge, removing one of the flags

Have I missed anything?

 

But yeah pretty much all of the above scenarios are based off either the decisions or the error of the settlement owner, and settlers have very little to no recourse to mitigate any of them.

Edited by Kidori

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Posted (edited)

I just want to add to the discussion that I'm going on holiday next month. The flight alone is nearly a day in duration with changeovers and then I'm at a convention doing things so for about a week I wouldn't be able to play. I'm only doing single player at the moment but if I were on official this would leave me pretty certain everything would be gone when I got back or feeling forced to play.

Edited by Senkoau

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13 minutes ago, Senkoau said:

I just want to add to the discussion that I'm going on holiday next month. The flight alone is nearly a day in duration with changeovers and then I'm at a convention doing things so for about a week I wouldn't be able to play. I'm only doing single player at the moment but if I were on official this would leave me pretty certain everything would be gone when I got back or feeling forced to play.

The existing decay timer is 14 days. If you’re gone a week you’ll be fine.

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21 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

The existing decay timer is 14 days. If you’re gone a week you’ll be fine.

It's 10 days for structures. A week he'll still be fine unless someone new claims the island.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

It's 10 days for structures. A week he'll still be fine unless someone new claims the island.

Right. Exactly what I said, 14 10 days for structures.

These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

Edited by boomervoncannon
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