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Darkweaver

Devs; why do you keep rolling over the small company & solo player?

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1 hour ago, Martyn said:

Easy fix.  Remove ability to gain dp's by teleporting or dying.  Must sail into region to get dp.

I’m totally down with this. Supports the core concept of Atlas as a sailing game not a teleporting game and disincentivizes bed spam. Great suggestion.

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1 hour ago, Martyn said:

Why can't the own lots of small islands? Island = number of pts.. more pts, bigger islands or more island.. 

Because there are other people playing the game who need to claim islands too.  Some of them are groups of friends who would like to play the game together.  Some of us find it more fun to play with 5 or 15 or 20 people that are friends than 200 people that are strangers calling themselves a company.

Island claim system= system devised to make sure that everyone had a chance to claim land, especially designed to help smaller groups according to the devs.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Linea said:

yeah it is not easy to balance.

of course one would have to place valuable boxes in buildings of reasonable size where it is very costly to remove a part or there might be a limit and parts cannot be removed once a building has reached a certain size or is considered a complete building. at least it would work on smaller obstacles that serve no real use since the fast decay system can already detects those structures.

i thought about a timer as well but the issue with this is that most foundation spammers are online every day and often live on the same island as the person they try to annoy on the PVE network. if they log in every day and place new foundations there needs to be a way to remove them quicker than they can place them and at the same time it needs to be more difficult to remove something like an active player base than it takes to build said base to balance things at least a little bit. also a timer remove on PVE would mean players go on vacation and loose all their stuff to an free action for the current landlord which was a similar feature removed already earlier.

but yeah they could instead allow to pay the upkeep for the flag with basic resources instead of gold to reduce the gold sinks. but as it stands everything will likely be gold based in the end for obvious reasons 😉

White list would fix that.  You goto region, ask who has space for you to make a base etc.. they add your steamname or company id to list.. you can build.  Noone else can build. Or maybe people could buy their way onto islands.. deposit x amount of gold to rent the right to build/stay, could be a % of island rent or number of settlers etc. something like that.

I like the idea of multiple flags per island, with multiple settlements, if the island is big enough to allow.

As for tax.. I wish it would extend to berries.. I'm sick of gathering berries to put in silo.. wish we could put veg in there or cooked meat etc.. I got larders full of that stuff now.

Maybe even cooked meals.. make em last longer for crew etc.. a burger lasts a crewman a week or something.

###

Ok it seems everything is now being removed after 10 days, at least on my island, I just spent over an hour walking around it.  Every piller, foundation, sign etc.. is gone.  Finally..

However.. the chests are not.  And if you think foundation spam is bad.. wait until you get chest spam.. or food trough spam.. Try walking through a pass over those things. I had to build a bridge over a guys old base, just to get to other side of it.

Edited by Martyn

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Martyn said:

Easy fix.  Remove ability to gain dp's by teleporting or dying.  Must sail into region to get dp.

It's great how people make demands, but never have any answers or suggestions.

No, that doesn't fix it.  The DP bed was just an example of the kinds of things people leave on an island that are not a "base".  Trying to anticipate each thing that might be left and coming up with a separate rule for each one isn't a good way to go about this.

As for answers or suggestions, those are best left to the people that understand the game and understand the problems.

Edited by Winter Thorne

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

No, that doesn't fix it.  The DP bed was just an example of the kinds of things people leave on an island that are not a "base".  Trying to anticipate each thing that might be left and coming up with a separate rule for each one isn't a good way to go about this.

As for answers or suggestions, those are best left to the people that understand the game and understand the problems.

Dp bed doesn't work.. well not exactly. You need to kill yourself to get the dp.  So they disable that.. make it a requisite for you to sail into region within say last 2 hours or so.. fixed.  Like the freeports atm.  You can only get those, by sailing into region. Most of them.. there's a few you can actually tp/die and get.

Edited by Martyn

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Just now, Martyn said:

Dp bed doesn't work.. well not exactly. You need to kill yourself to get the dp.  So they disable that.. make it a requisite for you to sail into region within say last 2 hours or so.. fixed.

You don't understand the problem.  It's dp beds and beds left there for other reasons as well, and taming pens and 2 foundations with a smithy and storage box on it, and..and..and...

The problem is not simply dp beds, and just nerfing dp (a system that's already getting a lot of complaints) doesn't do anything for the rest of it.  There needs to be some way of determining what's a meaningful settlement from what's just someone's convenient junk.

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DP beds work just fine. All you have to do is port to another island in the same grid and then back, or if there is only a single bed in that grid /sit on a chair. We had close to 300 DP beds at one time. As people in the company got them and no one went back they naturally decayed away. They were a typical user solution to a fucked mechanic.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Winter Thorne said:

You don't understand the problem.  It's dp beds and beds left there for other reasons as well, and taming pens and 2 foundations with a smithy and storage box on it, and..and..and...

The problem is not simply dp beds, and just nerfing dp (a system that's already getting a lot of complaints) doesn't do anything for the rest of it.  There needs to be some way of determining what's a meaningful settlement from what's just someone's convenient junk.

On lawless foundations get 10 days.  containers get 40 days.. ship container gets 50 or 60 or something..

Fix is easy.  Make everything 10 days. So long as auto demo works, problem fixes itself.

Stuff like piller spam which is more annoying than an issue.. goes in 12 hours.

If you live in the area, logging in continually refreshes it.  If you are jumping beds everyday to refresh.. well, you're kind using them & the island really.  And wasting your own time alot, which people are free to do.

The real issue here isn't so much the cosmetic side of how it looks.. it's the problems it causes for lag and server stability. 

Every chest with 50 items is 51 items that need to be tracked it's kinda like having 51 pillers.. only we can't see the items in the chest, they're still there, still recorded etc.. if someones house falls down after 10 days and their bed as well.. why are chests allowed 40 days...

(more typos than words today)

Similarly with your large island/large company issue.  Mega's need to continually refresh their islands, esp farming hubs/outposts.  That in time, is cost enough.

Edited by Martyn

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6 minutes ago, UnknownSystemError said:

DP beds work just fine. All you have to do is port to another island in the same grid and then back, or if there is only a single bed in that grid /sit on a chair. We had close to 300 DP beds at one time. As people in the company got them and no one went back they naturally decayed away. They were a typical user solution to a fucked mechanic.

No - They are an exploit of the badly designed system.  Thanks for the admission of guilt for exploiting the game btw.  Don't worry.. devs won't do anything about it.

  • Haha 1

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3 minutes ago, Martyn said:

if someones how falls down after 10 days and their bed as well.. why are chests allowed 40 days...

It's odd that chests and some other structures have such high decay timers, but chests only have 40 day timer when placed directly on the ground. Placed anywhere else it's tied to the 10 day decay timer, or 3 weeks on ships.

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3 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

It's odd that chests and some other structures have such high decay timers, but chests only have 40 day timer when placed directly on the ground. Placed anywhere else it's tied to the 10 day decay timer, or 3 weeks on ships.

That could always be a bug.

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On 7/16/2019 at 5:18 AM, Realist said:

 Very good points. I will help you out a little to get closer attention since you are new here.

@Jatheish ☝️ This guy seems very concerned, gave pretty good points, and wanted to become part of the community. 

After 10 pages of off topic discussion someone agreed with the OP (me) and you agreed with him. I'll take it.

On 7/16/2019 at 5:14 AM, Jozef said:

Can this be disabled for PvP too please?

With this change any company that has built on claimed land can potentially lose all they have ever built if they lose control of their claim flag. Offline raids are bad enough already, but at least currently it still takes some effort to wipe every single structure off an island. This nuke does not even require to demolish large buildings or even attack most outposts. You just need to capture the claim flag area - which is often itself not even defended, hold it for a few days, and anything that anyone has ever built on the island can be instanuked. This includes safe caches on mountaintops, secret stashes below the water line, all harbours, pens, stables, houses, farms, forts, turrets, buildings, paths, really everything. It has an enormous griefing potential and will be used in 9 out of 10 cases to wreck months of work instead of combating pillar spam. Any reasonable company will now relocate to lawless as with this change constant war is still safer than the risk of getting nuked - this single, small change is that bad.

I agree that overcoming pillar spam is important, but this change is a typical case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By combating pillar spam, all structures have just been made irrelevant in claimed areas on PvP servers as no matter what defences you build, if the enemy gets to control the claim flag, they can wipe everything you ever achieved in the game without a single gunshot.

Also, 12K gold is about a week's worth of upkeep for a 5 man company. It takes very little effort to obtain. A solo player farming common treasure maps makes about 1k gold an hour, and it just goes up from there. The money cost is far too low compared to the immense power it holds, as its by far the single strongest attack in the game. Renting a dragon costs 20k and its damage is negligible compared to this nuke.

I registered on this forum to make this single post, I am hoping it gets read by the relevant people even though I understand the chance for this is rather low.

 

^

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3 hours ago, Darkweaver said:

After 10 pages of off topic discussion someone agreed with the OP (me) and you agreed with him. I'll take it.

I'm not sure why you think the discussion was off topic. In your initial post, you raised the issue of the now infamous change. The overwhelming majority of the discussion going forward centered on this change, up to and including Jat's post acknowledging the change would be reverted. Just because discussion did not center around the very narrow aspect of how the change negatively impacted small vs large companies does not mean the discussion was off topic. It concerned a point of great community interest that you yourself raised at the start.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Darkweaver said:

After 10 pages of off topic discussion someone agreed with the OP (me) and you agreed with him. I'll take it.

^

Well it was good stuff and I will give credit where credit is due.

by the way, with you being new, part of what I said was me tagging jat. If you come on here with very thoughtful and helpful posts always make sure to tag jat.

if you aren’t sure how to do that yet just type @ and then the persons name. Keep going man. I I was liking your ideas. Start to help the molding process. We need a lot of changes and I am sure I will share most of your views.

some people shoot others down just for the sake of it on here but don’t let it get to you. I will have your back.

Edited by Realist

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On 7/13/2019 at 3:36 AM, Darkweaver said:

Dear developers,

Do you really not understand how the social dynamics in this game work? Or do you really don't care at all? Why do you keep rolling over the small guy? Just why?

:skull: CURRENT: V210.13 :skull:

- Magic Mythos 2x is enabled on the Official Network: 2x Taming, XP and Harvest Rates
- Settlement Owners can now raze a settlement after first claiming it. This will destroy all structures on the island. The cost to raze will be 12k gold on PvP servers and 25k gold on PvE servers. Settlement Owners will need to wait 48 hours to be able to raze an island after claiming it. The raze option will then be available for a 24-hour window only. This option is only functional during peacetime on PvP networks.

Who asked for this? Who needs this? Now not only a company of teenage bullies can raid me into oblivion in a game that revolves around farming, but now they can also foundation wipe me for a measly amount of 12k gold? You already made the situation really bad when you enabled fast decay for settlement owners. 12k gold... They stole that much from me already. You are basically rewarding them for steamrolling me. The amount of (non) thinking you give to these changes are just appalling.

Luckily they decided to revert the change. The change was awesome. Hell, even the people that always disagree with me can’t even attempt to disagree on this one point and I love it.

there is so much bs that goes on with physical experience, yet no gamer really has any physical experience with the game. Sure visual and emotional, but at the end of the day they really just don’t understand how the real world is. 

Business is a vastly different place from government. You would never want to listen to a businessman when it comes to government unless the government itself was having a problem with economy.

the politics involved with government is pretty mind numbing. Especially with me working in California. I love my country but I hate my state(even though it work in it). 

A lot of shady stuff goes on here. With ark a lot of shady stuff went on there as well. They called it politics.... smh 

I call it “the inability to differentiate the difference between a game and real life”. To be honest the leftists would love to take away your guns even in the game. The other side would say keep the guns and add rocket launchers. Lol

#waitingfor3rdparty

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@boomervoncannon and @Realist you guys really need to pay attention to what you read.

The OP @Darkweaver is PvP, he was talking about PvP, the OP was about PvP. Did it say PvP, well no, but he did comment on the cost of 12k gold which is the amount to raze on PvP.

So yes technically it was taken off topic, not on the subject itself but on the mode, i.e. PvP. And no the change was NOT reverted for PvP.

The OPs points still stand for him as nothing has changed for him.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

@boomervoncannon and @Realist you guys really need to pay attention to what you read.

The OP @Darkweaver is PvP, he was talking about PvP, the OP was about PvP. Did it say PvP, well no, but he did comment on the cost of 12k gold which is the amount to raze on PvP.

So yes technically it was taken off topic, not on the subject itself but on the mode, i.e. PvP. And no the change was NOT reverted for PvP.

The OPs points still stand for him as nothing has changed for him.

I see where you’re coming from to a point, but both you and the OP are defining the scope of what the conversation should have been narrowly and then declaring what it became out of bounds because it didn’t stay contained within those narrow bounds. Obviously the discussion that was had was one that needed to happen, you’re just saying it should have happened in a separate thread. Possibly, but do you know how many times over the years I have seen multiple threads discussing a hotly debated overall topic merged by forum moderators in order to keep the forums “tidy”? That means whether to start a separate thread can be a damned if you do damned if you don’t proposition.

Like it or not, the Op’s thread became ground zero for an immediate and pressing discussion of an issue mostly because he was the first to mention it. This is a thing that sometimes just happens on forums.  Plenty of threads I’ve made over the years have been hauled “off topic” because people didn’t stick to discussing the narrowly focused point I brought up in the OP. IT’s just the nature of the beast. Whinging about it won’t help or prevent it next time. Let’s all just move on.

 

Edited by boomervoncannon

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I'm glad you guys discussed the PVE aspect and consequently the Devs reverted the change for PVE. But we all kind of skipped over the PVP part. Which is more important.

Razing an island on paper sounds like something you would want or even need in some cases; but what about the consequences for people that are already there and don't want to leave? So obvious they never thought about this question. Devs really need to think these things through.

EVEN the recent change about fast decay was a better direction. That venue would be better development time spent instead of a NUKE.

Don't get me wrong, all that fast decay change means is the pillar spam needs to be made a little more carefully, snapping the pieces to each other to make a bigger structure. You might need to spend some more resources. Effectively increasing the spam on islands. Let's face it, a mega company never had issues with farming more mats for more spam. This hits the small company once more, the guy that is trying to secure his base location against griefers trying to foundation wipe him.

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Well fact is, that you can only live on claim islands if you are a mega company.

Singles/Small companys are 1-button-razed together with all of their assets.

Its just as i always have declared : slavery system

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Just wondering really quick if you notice a difference between the weekend and weekdays on officials?

i have been checking the player counts for all clusters and even thought the weekends go to 4K there is really only about 55-60% on official right now.

usually at high points the numbers are usually very close to 50/50 for official and unofficial.

just wanting to get a vibe for things. I am sure console will have a ton of people in the beginning, but I want to know what the feel is for you guys right now.

for me, I do like some interaction, but it doesn’t need to be a lot. To be honest even 2 interactions a day would be fine. Any more than that and it will start to annoy me because I don’t like my efficiency going down. I usually keep an extra set of gear on me in case a noob comes by but I can’t have atlas like San Diego where people are bumming cigarettes left and right.

ill give out a few but after awhile I get loaded and start yelling at people, or in atlas case start killing noobs.

so yeah, just wondering how things are going and a certain vibe to expect. Just preparing for later on. I am sure I will ask this again later as well.

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2 minutes ago, Realist said:

Just wondering really quick if you notice a difference between the weekend and weekdays on officials?

i have been checking the player counts for all clusters and even thought the weekends go to 4K there is really only about 55-60% on official right now.

usually at high points the numbers are usually very close to 50/50 for official and unofficial.

just wanting to get a vibe for things. I am sure console will have a ton of people in the beginning, but I want to know what the feel is for you guys right now.

for me, I do like some interaction, but it doesn’t need to be a lot. To be honest even 2 interactions a day would be fine. Any more than that and it will start to annoy me because I don’t like my efficiency going down. I usually keep an extra set of gear on me in case a noob comes by but I can’t have atlas like San Diego where people are bumming cigarettes left and right.

ill give out a few but after awhile I get loaded and start yelling at people, or in atlas case start killing noobs.

so yeah, just wondering how things are going and a certain vibe to expect. Just preparing for later on. I am sure I will ask this again later as well.

Hey man, can I have a cigarette?

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On 7/19/2019 at 8:20 AM, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

@boomervoncannon and @Realist you guys really need to pay attention to what you read.

The OP @Darkweaver is PvP, he was talking about PvP, the OP was about PvP. Did it say PvP, well no, but he did comment on the cost of 12k gold which is the amount to raze on PvP.

So yes technically it was taken off topic, not on the subject itself but on the mode, i.e. PvP. And no the change was NOT reverted for PvP.

The OPs points still stand for him as nothing has changed for him.

I'm glad you called boomer out because all he does is post random shiite and trying to get one over on other people. He might be more successful if he had debates with himself.

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1 hour ago, MrMagoo said:

I'm glad you called boomer out because all he does is post random shiite and trying to get one over on other people. He might be more successful if he had debates with himself.

I am real though lol. I try to be at least lol.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Hey man, can I have a cigarette?

If you are one of the first few then yeah man. After that, we might have a different experience. I always try to be kosher. It doesn’t always end that way.

i am a reactive(oops)person. I just live until someone makes my experience negative. After that I am all for their lives to become inconvenient. Tried to say that as nice as I could

Edited by Realist

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