Skill Requirements

[Nari 197]

I [hope] know the economy is the last thing on your priorities list atm but you guys really need to get rid of skill requirements for equipment.

Unless you honestly expect everyone to conform to the same choice of skills just to be able to equip gear, yet alone improve it, these requisites are redundant and only hinder opportunities for trade. BP's are not a rare commodity. Level should not artificially limit your access to acquire or use equipment, only the ability to craft it. Skill points are currently handed out like Skittles on Halloween so it's easy to dismiss this as a non-issue.

But it is... Considering the pirate theme this should be all the more obvious.

How many times in PVP have players raided equipment only to find out they need a dozen levels just to use it? How many PvE Players have been disappointing to find out the only real commodities are Gold and Mats? So much for all these BP's with extra crafts we're never going to use and there's no market for... our allies can't use them yet and by the time they can they'll have accrued their own collection. By removing these requirements you open the door for all kinds of new ways to distribute rewards. Chests could have a chance to give you the actual item for example instead of the BP. The best part being you can actually use it!

TL:DR: If you must insist on these Studies skills please change them to function as "Enables CRAFTING of [Quality] [Item(s)]" instead of enables use.

 

*Edited for clarity

Edited July 13, 2019 by Nari

[Captain Jack Shadow 488]

Yes!  Yes!  Yes!

 

What they can also do as an alternative is create a separate use tree, and make it not so expensive to gain the skills to use items.  Crafting the items should be where the real cost in points should be at.

You shouldn't have to be a tier two tamer and breeder, to ride tier 3.

Personally, I'm really liking the skill tree in Conan Exiles.  That game is also friendlier to small groups.

[Nari 197]

1 hour ago, Captain Jack Shadow said:

What they can also do as an alternative is create a separate use tree, and make it not so expensive to gain the skills to use items.  Crafting the items should be where the real cost in points should be at.

You shouldn't have to be a tier two tamer and breeder, to ride tier 3.

It all just seem so bass ackwards and counter productive to me. They emphasize trade. Even went out of their way to make a trade window and player shops. Sadly these features are all but useless if the value of these goods (equipment) are diminished by the buyers level and choice of skills. To me a Journeyman bow is WAY more valuable early game, than a Mythical one late game, but if I'm required to learn how to craft/equip said bow then why would I ever trade or raid for one? The most obvious offenders since the skills rework are guns. Assuming my math was right it's a minimum of 64 points (not counting Metallurgy) to unlock/use the Carbine. That''s not to mention that EVERY SINGLE STUDIES SKILL in the Firearms tree must be unlock BEFORE the Carbine itself... why?!? I don't get it. It makes no sense. It makes my brain hurt... 

Beastmaster is another great example, even though I was specifically complaining about equipment. (Tools/Weapons/Armor/the Glider/etc.) This problem is going to progressively get worse if they continue to add content that is gated by these redundant prerequisite and studies skills.

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

I sincerely hope this thread doesn't get lost in all the furor over the new claim system change. This is an important point about designing any game with a crafting system that hopes to foster any kind of economy. The current skill system goes in the opposite direction as Nari as very cogently laid out.

Edited July 13, 2019 by boomervoncannon

[Nari 197]

Thanks for the bump. I'm not hoping for a Hot Topic but I would like people (devs in particular) to consider how this relatively simple change could affect multiple aspects of gameplay for the better with little to no downsides. The progression curve and PvP balance are really the only things that comes to mind and when you really think about it are not negatively affected to the point of any real concern. Yes a lowbie with a Mythical Carbine might sound broken on paper but in reality it gives that lowbie a fighting chance against 100+ with fountain stacks to boot.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Nari

[wandelaar 44]

As you can use a vanilla gun without having learned the skill or a vanilla crossbow without knowing the skill, it should be similar for better ones.
It seems ok to learn a single skill that lets you use better tools or weapons in general. And it seems more than ok that crafting requires detailed skills.
In reality, pulling the trigger requires no skill compared to building the gun.

 

[seruum 56]

I say keep the skills but give a buff. Or a hindrance if you dont have it. Maybe lose 20% of the extra stats the crafted item gives. So anything over the 100% for weapons anf stats for armor. It is enough of a bonus to want to still use the items buy also enough of a hindrance to want to get the skills.

[wandelaar 44]

@seruum I like this idea very much.

If my skill with firearms is basic, no matter what firearm I use reflects my skill. If my skill is advanced, I truly benefit from using a better gun up to my own skill level, while still just getting common gun behaviour from common guns.

[Nari 197]

Remove them, Segregate them, Flip Use for Craft, Reduce their cost and/or accessibility.

Something needs to be done!

 

*derp... increase accessibility

Edited July 15, 2019 by Nari

[natclanwy 3]

I like that a lvl 10 player can’t join a large company and walk around in a mythical plate armor set and ride a tiger into battle, but I hate that I have to spend a significant amount of skill points just to wear or use them. Maybe a better system would be to unlock them similar to the TEK gear in Ark by achieving a certain level or as a reward for completing a quest and if the latter was implemented make it a combination of both to keep it from being exploited. 

[Nari 197]

Fair enough, but to do so we have to assume there will be no TEK equivalent worthy of being locked behind quests in the future for Atlas. You don't have these redundant Engrams in ARK for Tools or armor Cloth - Riot quality BP's. Just the requirement of an absurd amount of materials.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Nari

[boomervoncannon 1,541]

1 hour ago, natclanwy said:

I like that a lvl 10 player can’t join a large company and walk around in a mythical plate armor set and ride a tiger into battle, but I hate that I have to spend a significant amount of skill points just to wear or use them. Maybe a better system would be to unlock them similar to the TEK gear in Ark by achieving a certain level or as a reward for completing a quest and if the latter was implemented make it a combination of both to keep it from being exploited. 

I would have no problem with gear being level gated as it is in other games. I have a huge problem with having to be able to craft a thing as a prerequisite for being able to use the thing as it destroys any notion of a crafting component to an economy. If you must be able to make the thing in order to use it, why would you ever bother to buy it from someone else?

Gating gear access behind quests is a negative, but not as bad depending upon the difficulty of the quest.

[Nari 197]

If they don't want equipment as a commodity then I can settle for less. I wont be mad, just disappointed...

[natclanwy 3]

3 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

I would have no problem with gear being level gated as it is in other games. I have a huge problem with having to be able to craft a thing as a prerequisite for being able to use the thing as it destroys any notion of a crafting component to an economy. If you must be able to make the thing in order to use it, why would you ever bother to buy it from someone else?

Gating gear access behind quests is a negative, but not as bad depending upon the difficulty of the quest.

I agree crafting and wearing should be two different skills/unlocks there really should be a dedicated crafting skill tree that allows or the making of items but the ability to use those items should be a given and like I said previously higher quality items should be level gated at a minimum. I agree on not making them end game quest unlockable but I do like the questing aspect and it gives more incentive to get out and do something rather than just grinding treasure maps until level gate is achieved.