Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Kappinski

About losing your ship

Recommended Posts

I was watching a video about another MMO in space where someone mentioned that you can buy insurance for your ship and if it gets destroyed by someone you can get it back.

Sounds to me like a good solution for ATLAS.

Let's think about this together 🙂

The most obvious thing would be to use the ship vendor in freeports to buy insurance for your ship. But how does he know which ship?
closest range?
We could add some magic here 😄
A new Structure! The "Ship insurence box" 😄

You can only buy it at the freeport for little gold and have to place it on the ship.
Then you have to fill it with gold depending on the class and weight of the ship and if it is full it disappears in magic sparkles and your ship is saved with everthing inside of it at this specific moment. So if it is sunk you can get it back.

What do you think? Any ideas? How about a ship in a bottle? 😄

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think i kind of know what mmo you are talking about. Because otherwise it could be highly exploitable, when i used to play, Insurance was only worth using in t1 ships. It was worthless  in t2, t3 or faction ships because you recieved peanuts compared with what you paid for them in any trading hub. And even in t1, if you include the fitting you never recovered more than 40-50% of the isk. It also expired, so in the case you didn't lose the ship during the period of insurance you wasted money. When you were a newbie it was nice to get back some isk when you lose a ship but when you had like 20,30 or 40 fitted ships in your garage, most of them t2 and faction you didn't even bothered to insure.

That is in a game where the main thing you farm is a currency, and you can go to any trading hub and use that currency to buy the exactly same stuff you lost. What is the point to recieve any amount of gold for the loss of a ship, with items that have very different bonuses and you can't buy back? 

Imo, Insurance was mainly introduced as an imaginative way to act as floor for the price of minerals, so miners would get protected from market manipulators. If i had to implement similar mechanics to that that game, it would be reinforced timers and how starbases work, how alliances work, but i don't see the point of adding insurance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm kind of on the fence about this. I've lost ships myself, and I know it sucks. Maybe not as much as it used to considering how much easier/cheaper it is to rebuild them now. Part of me says it trivializes consequences, and another part of me says as a casual player losing a ship and potentially everything on it is probably too harsh when I only have an hour or so to play every once in a while. 

I know the hardcore crowd will probably be against the idea, most of them are in active companies with more than one person so recovering from the loss of a ship or two is maybe an hour or two of grinding resources. For me, it's about 2 days to build a brig and it took me about 3, maybe 4 days to build my galleon. Well, to get my galleon in a basic seaworthy state anyway. It's still not what I would call 100% finished. 

I guess my point is I'm not opposed to the idea entirely and I'd most likely take advantage of it if it were there, but it's not really a priority feature for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2019 at 11:39 AM, Kummba said:

WOW ship fast travel enabled, so exploitable.

If you can get your ship back at any freeport you are right. But still you would have to sink your ship to get the insurance.
But here is a solution. If your ship was sunk and you organized the insurance before. You can buy it back for additional cost at the freeport in form of a ship in a bottle. And you can summon the ship only in the grid where it was sunk.
The Bottle would be an abstract item like cosmetics or compass so you cannot trade bottled ships.

Edited by Kappinski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about a salvage & repair mechanic instead?
I think it could be compaitble with PvP and PvE both.

Imagine a salvage attachment to your ship that allows you to sail up to a wreck and not just salvage from a plunder-the-resources POV, but salvage from oi-this-part-looks-still-usable POV. Then those mythical cannons and master planks are actually worth salvaging. So you would end up with a partially filled variant of the cargo rack containing rescued ship parts.
The existing salvage nechanics could remain as well.
The salvage attachment could be a one-wreck-operation only.
The attachment should be mountable on a sloop (and bigger).

There is a huge difference between losing your ship in the beginning of the game or later, when you have resources in stock and possible animals to farm. But even in the beginning -alone and poor-, I didn't find it too hard to rebuild a ship in a few hours. The loss of gear and tames was often more painfull. The salvage mechanic would not have helped me then as my ships were basic. Only later, when in a company, we invested in spare ships and much better, specialised ships.

By the way, the insurance would have been too heavy for me as a starting solo player as well. Now, the spare ships are there anyway and yes gold is cheap at this stage, so I would use it. But I honestly can't see it being implemented exploit-free.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One big NO! If your ship is gone then build new one. We don't need bs like this in game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I've lost dozens of ships, couldn't care less. 

Done correctly building a galleon on official takes 3 hours. 

 

Devs dont need to spend time on mechanics we don't need

 

However, buying ships for gold from a freeport, yes please, sometimes I don't feel like grinding them out

Edited by Badkebab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Badkebab said:

I've lost dozens of ships, couldn't care less. 

Done correctly building a galleon on official takes 3 hours. 

 

Devs dont need to spend time on mechanics we don't need

 

However, buying ships for gold from a freeport, yes please, sometimes I don't feel like grinding them out

Odd, takes me that long to get 2nd type of wood, thatch, fibre from a nearby region, let alone 3rd and 4th type, then another trip for each type of metal.

I'm not up to mythic kit yet, but i suspect mythos farming takes a bit of time, for those that make ships that good, they'd also need the 5th and 6th type of each resource.

I suppose if I had all the mats just lieing around 3 hours might be possible, certainly wouldn't be a measure i'd use for timing anything by though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Mythical ships isnt something I was thinking of since I don't bother with them. 

I'd be unlikely to ever spend that amount of investment in something that is easily destroyed while I'm at work or sleeping. 

 

I probably wouldn't do it if they were insurable I'd rather spend the time sinking ships. 

Edited by Badkebab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, wandelaar said:

What about a salvage & repair mechanic instead?
I think it could be compaitble with PvP and PvE both.

Imagine a salvage attachment to your ship that allows you to sail up to a wreck and not just salvage from a plunder-the-resources POV, but salvage from oi-this-part-looks-still-usable POV. Then those mythical cannons and master planks are actually worth salvaging. So you would end up with a partially filled variant of the cargo rack containing rescued ship parts.
The existing salvage nechanics could remain as well.
The salvage attachment could be a one-wreck-operation only.
The attachment should be mountable on a sloop (and bigger).

There is a huge difference between losing your ship in the beginning of the game or later, when you have resources in stock and possible animals to farm. But even in the beginning -alone and poor-, I didn't find it too hard to rebuild a ship in a few hours. The loss of gear and tames was often more painfull. The salvage mechanic would not have helped me then as my ships were basic. Only later, when in a company, we invested in spare ships and much better, specialised ships.

By the way, the insurance would have been too heavy for me as a starting solo player as well. Now, the spare ships are there anyway and yes gold is cheap at this stage, so I would use it. But I honestly can't see it being implemented exploit-free.
 

 

This is something my company has discussed and for the most part we all like it.  It would be nice to have the ability to recover some of the high end planks, cannons, decks, sails, etc when a ship goes down.  In Eve it randomly drops ship parts.  Why not in Atlas?  Want to see  more standard ships at sea instead of high end mythical ships?  Put this in.  I know a lot of people who would be happy tossing 10 standard brigs against a high end mythical galleon to sink it.  We could lose every single one of them and consider it a win if we could loot that ship.

Flip side is if you lose your high end ship, you have a chance to recover some of the planks, cannons, etc to start building a new one.  Softens the loss quite a bit. 

Edited by DocHolliday
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though I understand why they have changed all the decay times etc,this is gonna make it much grindier for the small company or solo player.It looks like they would rather solo players play single player now because in some ways multiplayer is gonna be a much bigger struggle for solo's soon.It would help though if all existing and new game mechanics were clearly explained,ie you have so many days before ship decays,and you have to log in/fast travel, re anchor whatever it needs to reset.At the moment no one seems to have a definite idea of how the different decays actually work.I just lost 2 of my only 4 ships when I thought I was resetting the timer the correct way.Oh well onto blackwood next,see what's going down there!(hopefully not more of my ships)ho ho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I would argue heavily against A.  The devs have consistently implemented player ideas and made changes based off of our feedback.  We've even had them pop in our zone and ask us to do something specific for them to see what happens.  Its not super unusual to see Jat talking in global. 

Edited by DocHolliday
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

I would argue heavily against A.  The devs have consistently implemented player ideas and made changes based off of our feedback.  We've even had them pop in our zone and ask us to do something specific for them to see what happens.  Its not super unusual to see Jat talking in global. 

All opinions are based on ones perspective.

So my opinions are my own based on what I have seen in game.

Perhaps the devs do care, perhaps the devs do visit a chosen few players in game.  Perhaps they are competent and maybe they do listen.

But from my POV, they are not and my comment reflects that obviously.

Perhaps I should be labelled toxic and/or silenced because I don't shared the majority or the minority's view on the development of the game.  I thought forums were for sharing ideas not labeling people and pointing out they are wrong.  Perhaps we should acknowledge their view and figure out why they see it that way?  Oh wait nvm that's not how humans think.  We prefer to attack, label, criticism, and ban for lack of conformity in mindset.

Edited by sgzeroone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

 

This is something my company has discussed and for the most part we all like it.  It would be nice to have the ability to recover some of the high end planks, cannons, decks, sails, etc when a ship goes down.  In Eve it randomly drops ship parts.  Why not in Atlas?  Want to see  more standard ships at sea instead of high end mythical ships?  Put this in.  I know a lot of people who would be happy tossing 10 standard brigs against a high end mythical galleon to sink it.  We could lose every single one of them and consider it a win if we could loot that ship.

Flip side is if you lose your high end ship, you have a chance to recover some of the planks, cannons, etc to start building a new one.  Softens the loss quite a bit. 

@sgzeroone & @boomervoncannon  Can we get back to the topic please? 🙂

I love this idea!
I don't really care how, but to actually get some of the real ship parts of a sunken ship is super cool. This could lead to a little bit more player based economy. Because without the effort of farming it yourself you could sell mid - high tier ship parts or cannons for decent profit. You shouldn't get 100% of the ship.
The most simple solution would be to add a chance of 20%(maybe higher, maybe lower) to the demolishing of sunken ships that you get the structure itself instead of common resources.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Kappinski said:

The most simple solution would be to add a chance of 20%(maybe higher, maybe lower) to the demolishing of sunken ships that you get the structure itself instead of common resources.

I second this. 

Probability could be adjust by condition. If the plank only has 10% HP the chance could be low, above 90% HP higher.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have removed an off-topic/derailing conversation.  Let's stick to the topic the OP started.

  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be happy for a mechanic that allowed us to replicate our ship instantly when needed.  If this is in the form of insurance, then that would be ok too. This would work by us being able to save our ship and it telling us the total cost of building it.  So lets say it cost 20,000 wood, 18,000 thatch etc etc, all we would need is to have all those resources and we could instantly build the ship that was saved.  I'd even be happy to have to pay more than the actual cost to build.  The instant rebuild of the ship would be worth paying extra cost for.  Rules could apply as to how many saved ship templates you could have (1 per player would be a good start).  If you liked the way a player in your company built his ship, you could always board it and save his template as your own.

Also if it is seen as a problem that companies could mass build the same ship, either make the cost percentage higher or make it that ships could ONLY be instantly built if the original ship that you built is destroyed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×