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Tezcatlipoca

Decay Time

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Day 2304, 12:03:50: Reflecting X - Lvl 59 (Windex Ninjas - Boss) claimed your auto-decayed tame 'Elephant - Lvl 27 (Elephant)'!

It's really annoying ... 8 days for Tames, 10 for buildings and of course there is always an asshole, which is immediately on the spot and destroys or steals everything.

How should one do any outposts like this? Before the wipe you could go on vacation for another 2 weeks, today I have to look for someone and hand over a plan, which he has to work down meticulously, because otherwise something decayed.

I know that with your stupid Colony system you are unable to control the Foundation and Pillar Spammer. But such short decay timers do not solve the problem and put the normal players in front of new problems. Your problem is the messy Colony system and missing server moderators.

Fix it!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

It's really annoying ... 8 days for Tames, 10 for buildings and of course there is always an asshole, which is immediately on the spot and destroys or steals everything.

How should one do any outposts like this? Before the wipe you could go on vacation for another 2 weeks, today I have to look for someone and hand over a plan, which he has to work down meticulously, because otherwise something decayed.

I know that with your stupid Colony system you are unable to control the Foundation and Pillar Spammer. But such short decay timers do not solve the problem and put the normal players in front of new problems. Your problem is the messy Colony system and missing server moderators.

Fix it!

Yeah no sorry, I’m not of the opinion that the decay timer needs to allow solo players to maintain outposts while gone on vacation for 2 weeks straight. Setting minimums to accommodate solo players so they experience no inconvenience when gone from the game twice as long as most NA players are able to be away from work at a time (yes I’m aware EU generally get longer vacations) is not the direction the game needs to go. MMO’s are built around multi player organizations. Some accommodation of solo players is reasonable, but wanting the decay timers to be extended so that you must make zero additional contingencies to maintain what you have because you want to do so as a solo player in a game designed for group play undermines the game’s needs in order to cater to your wants.

If you get what you want, solo players need only log in twice a month to never have anything they’ve built go away. This is catering to super casual solo players at the expense of the entire rest of the pve playerbase. Yes under the current system you must make some additional effort and plans to maintain what you have if gone this long. I am of the opinion this is a reasonable cost and requirement of choosing solo play. 

When you choose to play solo every structure you build is taking up finite space in a game world designed around and intended primarily for groups of players. Without realizing it, you are imposing upon the rest of the playerbase by choosing to stay solo. Their bases with crafting stations, gardens, tames and storage, to say nothing of ships, support a minimum as twice as many players as yours does. You get to have all these things for your exclusive and personal use if you choose, but I for one am perfectly fine with the trade off being you have to have some contingency plan to maintain what you have if gone for half a month. I don’t find this unfair or unreasonable, just a trade off you must deal with if you choose to play solo in a multiplayer oriented game.

Edited by boomervoncannon
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This is not about single players and I'm not one either. But thanks to the bad product quality of the developers, many players are already gone and the rest is playing without any major ambitions. They do not enjoy jumping through the beds once a week. Some will screw that up too! Should I renounce my holiday now or keep BOOMERVONCANNON as a slave?

This has nothing to do with compromise, but that is simply a disadvantage of smaller groups. It starts with the fact that groups with islands buy the decay timer with gold. The developers wanted to better support the smaller groups, but this has remained an empty promise so far. In fact, it has even worsened and the Mega Tribes is still pushed everything in the ass.

Apart from that, please spare me with your traditional picture of an MMO! Multiplayer does not automatically mean organization and group content, even if many can not imagine otherwise! Players can also interact with each other without being forced by obsolete game systems. So maybe even more players would be in the game than they are left today.

btw: I do not care if NA players only have a week off! And if the Asians, Africans or South Americans have 6 weeks, then the timer has to take this into account in the interests of its players! The world is not about North America.

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All these people that go on about solo players, what about a group of friends? Lets say 5 friends all play together on official servers and all decide to go on holiday together for 2 weeks (yes Europe rules). They lose all their work ingame because they go on holiday and because they are a solo player group playing on an MMO? Yet the most common argument against those that want the timers increased to allow fairness to ALL regions typical holiday allowances is that they shouldn't play an MMO solo.

I'm certain that if the US also had a typical 2 week holiday package at work that they would also be asking for the timers to be extended to allow them to be on holiday and not get punished for taking a well deserved break from life/work.

Ships have 21 days, why buildings only have 10 days?

Why do European players get screwed just because US players get screwed by their employers over the amount of holiday they give?

@Dollie @Jatheish I'd like to continue this request for an increase in the 10 day timer. Keep lawless at 10 days and boost claimed/unclaimed to 15 days to provide more incentive for landowners/tenants.

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50 minutes ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

This is not about single players and I'm not one either. But thanks to the bad product quality of the developers, many players are already gone and the rest is playing without any major ambitions. They do not enjoy jumping through the beds once a week. Some will screw that up too! Should I renounce my holiday now or keep BOOMERVONCANNON as a slave?

This has nothing to do with compromise, but that is simply a disadvantage of smaller groups. It starts with the fact that groups with islands buy the decay timer with gold. The developers wanted to better support the smaller groups, but this has remained an empty promise so far. In fact, it has even worsened and the Mega Tribes is still pushed everything in the ass.

Apart from that, please spare me with your traditional picture of an MMO! Multiplayer does not automatically mean organization and group content, even if many can not imagine otherwise! Players can also interact with each other without being forced by obsolete game systems. So maybe even more players would be in the game than they are left today.

btw: I do not care if NA players only have a week off! And if the Asians, Africans or South Americans have 6 weeks, then the timer has to take this into account in the interests of its players! The world is not about North America.

Lets be reasonable. If you, as a solo, have multiple beds across the map that you "have" to maintain every week, there is a good argument that you should lose some of those. A gaping flaw in the game is the fast travel, and you help prove it by not being capable of maintainimg your grossly oversized personal network.

Lets not forget, this game is made in America, and that alone justifies scaling it to our modified slave system we call capitalism. Your escape is a multi week vacation,  our escape is a few hours a day online. (Our owner class will have the multi week vacation, witch trumps gaming any day of the week.)

Oh, and sadly yes, the world is about America, or specifically, our military and the petro dollar.

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Well besides the 2 posters trying to bait everyone into their faux political worlds the timers are good just the way they are.

its a video game for gods sake!

if you cannot play during the set timer amount that is not the developers fault and asking them to cater to each individual countries vacation rules is ridiculous!

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1 hour ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

This is not about single players and I'm not one either. But thanks to the bad product quality of the developers, many players are already gone and the rest is playing without any major ambitions. They do not enjoy jumping through the beds once a week. Some will screw that up too! Should I renounce my holiday now or keep BOOMERVONCANNON as a slave?

This has nothing to do with compromise, but that is simply a disadvantage of smaller groups. It starts with the fact that groups with islands buy the decay timer with gold. The developers wanted to better support the smaller groups, but this has remained an empty promise so far. In fact, it has even worsened and the Mega Tribes is still pushed everything in the ass.

Apart from that, please spare me with your traditional picture of an MMO! Multiplayer does not automatically mean organization and group content, even if many can not imagine otherwise! Players can also interact with each other without being forced by obsolete game systems. So maybe even more players would be in the game than they are left today.

btw: I do not care if NA players only have a week off! And if the Asians, Africans or South Americans have 6 weeks, then the timer has to take this into account in the interests of its players! The world is not about North America.

 

1 hour ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

All these people that go on about solo players, what about a group of friends? Lets say 5 friends all play together on official servers and all decide to go on holiday together for 2 weeks (yes Europe rules). They lose all their work ingame because they go on holiday and because they are a solo player group playing on an MMO? Yet the most common argument against those that want the timers increased to allow fairness to ALL regions typical holiday allowances is that they shouldn't play an MMO solo.

I'm certain that if the US also had a typical 2 week holiday package at work that they would also be asking for the timers to be extended to allow them to be on holiday and not get punished for taking a well deserved break from life/work.

Ships have 21 days, why buildings only have 10 days?

Why do European players get screwed just because US players get screwed by their employers over the amount of holiday they give?

@Dollie @Jatheish I'd like to continue this request for an increase in the 10 day timer. Keep lawless at 10 days and boost claimed/unclaimed to 15 days to provide more incentive for landowners/tenants.

I am answering both these posts in a single reply because the issue is the same. It is not NA vs the world or EU, but it is about compromise. The length of the decay timer is always going to be a compromise between competing interests. Active players want the decay timers to be shorter to free up space faster and more frequently. Both of you have raised the issue of fairness to players in parts of the world where 2 week vacations are common, but my objection is based not on whether this is fair to those players vs NA players, but the percentage of players who legitimately have this need.

NA players do not because we don’t get 2 week vacations. Non NA players who belong to any decent size company do not, because other company members can cover while they are gone. Non NA players who belong to a small company that does not all go on vacation together irl does not for the same reason. So in the end, who might actually need 2weeks? Non NA solo players and NON NA players in small companies where the entire company goes on vacation together. What portion of the playerbase does this represent? I don’t know but I have a hard time believing it could be more than 5% to 10% at most. 

Thats why I’m not in favor of lengthening the decay timers. At the end of the day it would be putting the wants of a fraction of the playerbase ahead of the interests of the whole. Even those players who want this change and arguing for it would be unlikely to ever notice when it worked against them. When they couldn’t get the spot they wanted because some other guy only had to check in twice a month to keep it from them permanently. Human beings are bad at perceiving what doesn’t happen and weighing it against what does, but in this instance what doesn’t happen (space being freed up) is more impactful than what does.

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12 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I am answering both these posts in a single reply because the issue is the same. It is not NA vs the world or EU, but it is about compromise. The length of the decay timer is always going to be a compromise between competing interests. Active players want the decay timers to be shorter to free up space faster and more frequently. Both of you have raised the issue of fairness to players in parts of the world where 2 week vacations are common, but my objection is based not on whether this is fair to those players vs NA players, but the percentage of players who legitimately have this need.

NA players do not because we don’t get 2 week vacations. Non NA players who belong to any decent size company do not, because other company members can cover while they are gone. Non NA players who belong to a small company that does not all go on vacation together irl does not for the same reason. So in the end, who might actually need 2weeks? Non NA solo players and NON NA players in small companies where the entire company goes on vacation together. What portion of the playerbase does this represent? I don’t know but I have a hard time believing it could be more than 5% to 10% at most. 

Thats why I’m not in favor of lengthening the decay timers. At the end of the day it would be putting the wants of a fraction of the playerbase ahead of the interests of the whole. Even those players who want this change and arguing for it would be unlikely to ever notice when it worked against them. When they couldn’t get the spot they wanted because some other guy only had to check in twice a month to keep it from them permanently. Human beings are bad at perceiving what doesn’t happen and weighing it against what does, but in this instance what doesn’t happen (space being freed up) is more impactful than what does.

Active players want shorter decay timers to free up space? You mean things are getting overcrowded??? Funny because the player count doesn't suggest that.

The time now is to experiment with such changes. They increased lawless the same time they increased claimed/unclaimed which was silly. There needs to be more incentive to build on claimed/unclaimed land. Extended decay timers would be a good start.

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On your own island, it shouldn't be an issue.
It is ugly but easy to build a gigantic box to keep your animals from being claimed and the flag can now store food for a long time -in case you don't have any friends or neighbourghs that are willing to fill unlocked, outside food troughs and larders.
On somebody elses island it is solvable thanks to their claim flag (being able to contain food) ... provide you have an entendre with your neighbourghs =  the island owners.
So, this whole topic is actually about people living on lawless lands ... a choice with few but potentially significant consequences. And it is narrowed down further to groups of people that are either very small or take their vacations at the same time, with nobody willing to log in once a week.

Shrug?

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1 minute ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

Active players want shorter decay timers to free up space? You mean things are getting overcrowded??? Funny because the player count doesn't suggest that.

The time now is to experiment with such changes. They increased lawless the same time they increased claimed/unclaimed which was silly. There needs to be more incentive to build on claimed/unclaimed land. Extended decay timers would be a good start.

It is always easier to give than take away. Witness the cacophony of howls that go up at even the perception of a nerf. Lengthen the timers and shorten them again and the interested minority will raise a shitstorm and the very first argument they’ll likely make is “but it wasn’t hurting anyone.” They will be wrong but that will most assuredly be their perception. 

The issue is not merely one of overcrowding. Every structure creates stress on the server. This is why your game lags when you pull into a harbor area full of ships and shipyards. It is inherently true that allowing unused structures to stand for longer detracts from active players experience, whether from space use, impacted server performance or longer timers making pillar spam more viable and appealing to those who would employ it.

The more central question is the issue of what percentage of the playerbase benefits vs the entire playbase experiencing the drawbacks. The benefit is easier for that minority to perceive than the drawbacks are because the mind does not go “if the decay timers were shorter there might be less lag in this zone” or “the nincompoop who did this pillar spam might not have bothered with shorter decay timers.” or “if decay timers were shorter this massive base wouldn’t be here but the guy who built it only has to log in twice a month to keep it so here it sits.”

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12 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

On somebody elses island it is solvable thanks to their claim flag (being able to contain food) ... provide you have an entendre with your neighbourghs =  the island owners.

I'm sorry how does the owners claim flag help settlers?

 

12 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

So, this whole topic is actually about people living on lawless lands ... a choice with few but potentially significant consequences. And it is narrowed down further to groups of people that are either very small or take their vacations at the same time, with nobody willing to log in once a week.

Shrug?

How is this whole topic about people living on lawless lands? How does the fact building structures decay after 10 days whether on lawless or claimed/unclaimed land mean it is actually about lawless?

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15 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

It is always easier to give than take away. Witness the cacophony of howls that go up at even the perception of a nerf. Lengthen the timers and shorten them again and the interested minority will raise a shitstorm and the very first argument they’ll likely make is “but it wasn’t hurting anyone.” They will be wrong but that will most assuredly be their perception. 

The issue is not merely one of overcrowding. Every structure creates stress on the server. This is why your game lags when you pull into a harbor area full of ships and shipyards. It is inherently true that allowing unused structures to stand for longer detracts from active players experience, whether from space use, impacted server performance or longer timers making pillar spam more viable and appealing to those who would employ it.

The more central question is the issue of what percentage of the playerbase benefits vs the entire playbase experiencing the drawbacks. The benefit is easier for that minority to perceive than the drawbacks are because the mind does not go “if the decay timers were shorter there might be less lag in this zone” or “the nincompoop who did this pillar spam might not have bothered with shorter decay timers.” or “if decay timers were shorter this massive base wouldn’t be here but the guy who built it only has to log in twice a month to keep it so here it sits.”

For most of us, our structures sit as we are less active merely because the game in its current state is a shit-show and we are waiting to return one day if things get turned around. If our buildings decay even faster while we wait, then it will be the death knell for most of us from ever having the incentive to return to ATLAS...

3 minutes ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I'm sorry how does the owners claim flag help settlers?

 

How is this whole topic about people living on lawless lands? How does the fact building structures decay after 10 days whether on lawless or claimed/unclaimed land mean it is actually about lawless?

I personally despise the claim system and enjoy and will ONLY play on Lawless servers. 

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2 minutes ago, vaylain said:

I personally despise the claim system and enjoy and will ONLY play on Lawless servers.

I understand why people despise it, and yes I took a gamble by building on land. But i've not had any issues at all, I don't even give it any thought. But it may be luck of the draw when it comes to land owners, but i've had 2 which have both been friendly.

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Just now, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I understand why people despise it, and yes I took a gamble by building on land. But i've not had any issues at all, I don't even give it any thought. But it may be luck of the draw when it comes to land owners, but i've had 2 which have both been friendly.

It is the whole notion that I must ask for permission and pay a tax. Screw that noise...

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Just now, vaylain said:

It is the whole notion that I must ask for permission and pay a tax. Screw that noise...

You don't have to ask permission, I never did. Again that comes down to the owner I guess, but I don't think many expect it. And as for tax it only comes out of gold, nothing else. Many do set it to 20% because it is additive tax, but my land owner has actually reduced it to 9%. People say they hate the notion of paying taxes, yet it's only from treasure hunts, which has nothing to do with building on claimed land..... this is from a PvE perspective by the way, forgot to mention that.

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Just now, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

You don't have to ask permission, I never did. Again that comes down to the owner I guess, but I don't think many expect it. And as for tax it only comes out of gold, nothing else. Many do set it to 20% because it is additive tax, but my land owner has actually reduced it to 9%. People say they hate the notion of paying taxes, yet it's only from treasure hunts, which has nothing to do with building on claimed land..... this is from a PvE perspective by the way, forgot to mention that.

I don't like to go treasure hunting. I merely just farm to build and tame animals. As a solo player, (which I enjoy accomplishing things by myself), I really can't afford to sail big ships as they are always just sunk by the next morning from griefers. I usually find an extremely large island to occupy that is interesting and has almost all the resources that I need and just stay on that island. I only fast travel between all of the islands that I reside on. I don't really want to deal with landowners and taxes. I'll fight them but certainly NOT pay them.

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3 minutes ago, vaylain said:

I don't like to go treasure hunting. I merely just farm to build and tame animals. As a solo player, (which I enjoy accomplishing things by myself), I really can't afford to sail big ships as they are always just sunk by the next morning from griefers. I usually find an extremely large island to occupy that is interesting and has almost all the resources that I need and just stay on that island. I only fast travel between all of the islands that I reside on. I don't really want to deal with landowners and taxes. I'll fight them but certainly NOT pay them.

I take it you are PvP then?

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Posted (edited)

Yes, based on my experience of other sandbox MMOs, I feared that PVE would have limited my play experience, fun factor, and eventually just become boring so, I chose to play as PVP. I cannot imagine this game as solely PVE since there is NOT enough PVE content nor engaging encounters to make PVE intriguing enough...

The fundamental problem with ATLAS is that they tried to hard to cater to BOTH playstyles (PVP and PVE) and ended up gimping both of them in the long run. They really should have designed their game for only one of the two modes and then went with it all out with the content to support it.

Edited by vaylain

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For the people the go on holiday why can't they introduce a button in game where you get 1 time to have 2 week break maybe? Or an extended period of time.

If you are going on holiday use this feature by pressing it and it will extend but only a one off feature for a year maybe and then after that timers go back to normal. People can then go on their holidays and come back in time but you can't keep extending timers more and more all the time, I think 10days is enough, more than enough. I thought the 4 day timer was good enough personally, before the wipe.

 

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2 hours ago, DannyUK said:

For the people the go on holiday why can't they introduce a button in game where you get 1 time to have 2 week break maybe? Or an extended period of time.

If you are going on holiday use this feature by pressing it and it will extend but only a one off feature for a year maybe and then after that timers go back to normal. People can then go on their holidays and come back in time but you can't keep extending timers more and more all the time, I think 10days is enough, more than enough. I thought the 4 day timer was good enough personally, before the wipe.

 

I could live with that, it’s not making all structures decay at an extended 2 week rate all the time. I’d consider that workable.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, vaylain said:

For most of us, our structures sit as we are less active merely because the game in its current state is a shit-show and we are waiting to return one day if things get turned around. If our buildings decay even faster while we wait, then it will be the death knell for most of us from ever having the incentive to return to ATLAS...

I personally despise the claim system and enjoy and will ONLY play on Lawless servers. 

No one is suggesting your structures decay even faster. I’m just opposed to extending decay timers for all structures in order to accommodate a minority who go on 2 week vacations and don’t have company members not on vacation at the same time. Basically some small fraction of EU PVE.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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Posted (edited)

Add some feature called vacation time, structures will decay in 20 days and can only be used once in a year. Problem solved everyone happy. Cooldown 365 days, cost 10000 gold. Have fun. Or a ticket that extend 10 days your structures 100 k gold, can be used any time, or 1 gold for every structure you have, I bet some tribes will have to pay a grotesque amount of gold for this. But Bob's will have it almost free because they live in tatch huts of 3x3.

Edited by Emanuel a

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18 hours ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

It's really annoying ... 8 days for Tames, 10 for buildings and of course there is always an asshole, which is immediately on the spot and destroys or steals everything.

How should one do any outposts like this? Before the wipe you could go on vacation for another 2 weeks, today I have to look for someone and hand over a plan, which he has to work down meticulously, because otherwise something decayed.

I know that with your stupid Colony system you are unable to control the Foundation and Pillar Spammer. But such short decay timers do not solve the problem and put the normal players in front of new problems. Your problem is the messy Colony system and missing server moderators.

Fix it!

There were people I played with in Conan exiles that made it a point to always have a repair hammer with them at all times. I still have no clue what one actually looks like. Kind of sucks that people do that. It is basically pvp at that point.

oh well, things are going the way they are going. Plenty of things that could change that but let’s see what happens.

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13 hours ago, [GP] Guybrush Threepwood said:

I'm sorry how does the owners claim flag help settlers?

 

How is this whole topic about people living on lawless lands? How does the fact building structures decay after 10 days whether on lawless or claimed/unclaimed land mean it is actually about lawless?

I was wrong.
Only later did I remember that all decay timers of structures are currently set to the same value.

In which case having relations with neighbourghs does not help as they can't protect your structures.

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Nearly every other MMO, you never loose any of your stuff, People are used to this.

Atlas is different, you have constructed buildings in the persistant game world, your pets are not icons on you task bar, they are always "out" and needing to be fed.

The dev's need to create a balance both for those that come from an MMO background and those that come from an ARK background.

 

Put it this way, what other MMO if you don't log in for 2 weeks will you loose everything you own except whats in your inventory, there is no bank, no storage, just 2 weeks and all your work wiped out.

 

This is what needs to be addressed in some way, personaly I like the structure upkeep idea the devs touted around back in Febuary. ( make the upkeep materials, and have the upkeep box upkeep just those structures attatched to it. Have tames and ships update their timers to highest nearby structure.)

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