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Increasing sailing speed?  

132 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to increase sailing speed?

    • PvP player - Yes
      31
    • PvP player - No
      10
    • PvE player - Yes
      78
    • PvE player - No
      13


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Posted (edited)

Hey guys, I would like to discuss if you would like to increase default sailing speed (by a lot).

Sailing is good but gets boring very quick because there is nothing to do while going somewhere except of watching movies/series. I understand it´s highly subjective but as I speaked to my company members this is smt which bothers them too. 

I am a PvP player and rn we have enemies more than 3-4 grids away. Trying to PvP more than 3-4 grids away from your base is insanely time consuming. If you get bad wind you can travel there for hour and half just to get some action. Then you have to think about going back after you get some fights right? It´s another hour and half. Basically you spend much more time sailing (and AFKing) for PvP than actual fighting. I would like devs to think about players who play 3-4 hours a day. Basically they have no chance to do any PvP at all if they don´t have enemies like 2 grids away. 

And it´s not only about PvP. If you want to go for rare materials (like another type of wood which is few grids away from you) or farm blueprints on Golden ruins and you don´t have good wind you probably end up like "hmm, I got only 3 hours to play today, with this bad wind I can´t go those 3 grids away, farm some wood (BPs) and come back, nvm, hopefully tomorrow when I get from job wind will be better".

This game is time consuming, yes, you need to harvest, you need to build a base, tame, breed etc. and it´s completely fine. But sailing, that´s true problem (at least for us) because you got nothing from it, you pretty much AFK while watching movies. This is probably my personal reason why I stop playing.

Map is simply too huge for this low sailing speed. 

That´s a perspective of 850 hours PvP player. I would like to know your opinions on this guys (both PvP and PvE players). Added a poll for this.  

Edited by Willard

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Willard said:

 

-Sailing is good but gets boring very quick because there is nothing to do while going somewhere except of watching movies/series. I understand it´s highly subjective but as I speaked to my company members this is smt which bothers them too. -

    I mentioned this on the discord, and also put forward the idea of removing completely the low wind mechanic.
Needless to say I was shot down by a myriad of what I can only assume are no lifers telling me to 'get good' and to 'time my sailing' better, then there were the people saying its fine and that they enjoy sailing. It wasn't received well. Which is just odd. Gameplay in my opinion.. should be engaging and fun. sailing is neither of those things atm. and FAR too time consuming.
the fact that speed sails arnt being fixed because of overuse and troubles balancing doesnt help either.

Im just glad to see other people that are of like mind like me, that dont want to spend hours upon hours doing nothing in game. (I stopped playing Ark for this very reason, everything in the game seemed to have been implemented just to slow you down and keep you in game)

having said all that, Im still playing Atlas, as theres just enough to do besides massive journeys and endless sailing. im +1k hours so I like to think I have some idea of what im talking about, and I support this post. 
anything to get me across the map faster.

Edited by Sovreign
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35 minutes ago, Willard said:

 I would like devs to think about players who play 3-4 hours a day. Basically they have no chance to do any PvP at all if they don´t have enemies like 2 grids away. 

And it´s not only about PvP. If you want to go for rare materials (like another type of wood which is few grids away from you) or farm blueprints on Golden ruins and you don´t have good wind you probably end up like "hmm, I got only 3 hours to play today, with this bad wind I can´t go those 3 grids away, farm some wood (BPs) and come back, nvm, hopefully tomorrow when I get from job wind will be better".

The question and the poll are a bit to vague.

Increase of the max-possible speed -> no
Increase of the min-possible speed -> I am all for it. Decrease the no wind-time to be shorter.

The reachable max-sail-speed with the correct setup is more than enough (especially now since we have cargo-racks). with 21 knots it takes u about 4 - 5 minutes to cross an entire server. On your way back (loaded) home even if you have to zic-zac, a speed of 14-15 knots is still very reachable and viable (crossing a server 7 - 10 minutes per server).
So the max-sail-speed is not the problem - it's rather the lack of wind (low wind). We could talk about increasing the minimum sail-speed. But I am strongly against increasing the possible max-sail-speed, because that will just make raiding even more easy.

The problems you mention are none for me and my company - they seem to be organisational issues of your big company. We don't have enemies more than 3 or 4 grids away we wan't to attack and the gathering is no problem. We can craft expensive mythical-bp without problem. It's a question of ships & weightmanagment, how you organise your time & company. Trading is an option as well. The fact you can't just roflstomp other ppl in only 3 till 4 hour that are more than 3 grids away is a good thing. It should be difficult to attack someone further away. And it gives the game actually some depth if you have to organise yourself for such an attack.

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I want them to make it so if you have a lighthouse up on a friendly island NPC's will auto sail to it. Basically it will disappear and then appear near the lighthouse X time later. That way you can prepare attacks and send resources to areas you have some control under. lighthouses would have to be built in anchorable water. you would set up anchor points and be like go to this anchor spot. The lighthouse would be like a larder resource chest holding food and gold for boats and could be set to feed all your ships on the island or just the ones coming to the island. In PvP you blow up a lighthouse and it sinks the boats going to it. This would create wrecks in the area where they roughly would have been. Sailing was meant to feel kinda epic and it does give you a sense of a massive world but once you are used to it sailing does not give challenge or anything it's crap work to go here get X go here get Y sail for an hour bringing it back.

~Lotus

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Sinappia said:

The question and the poll are a bit to vague.

Increase of the max-possible speed -> no
Increase of the min-possible speed -> I am all for it. Decrease the no wind-time to be shorter.

The reachable max-sail-speed with the correct setup is more than enough (especially now since we have cargo-racks). with 21 knots it takes u about 4 - 5 minutes to cross an entire server. On your way back (loaded) home even if you have to zic-zac, a speed of 14-15 knots is still very reachable and viable (crossing a server 7 - 10 minutes per server).
So the max-sail-speed is not the problem - it's rather the lack of wind (low wind). We could talk about increasing the minimum sail-speed. But I am strongly against increasing the possible max-sail-speed, because that will just make raiding even more easy.

The problems you mention are none for me and my company - they seem to be organisational issues of your big company. We don't have enemies more than 3 or 4 grids away we wan't to attack and the gathering is no problem. We can craft expensive mythical-bp without problem. It's a question of ships & weightmanagment, how you organise your time & company. Trading is an option as well. The fact you can't just roflstomp other ppl in only 3 till 4 hour that are more than 3 grids away is a good thing. It should be difficult to attack someone further away. And it gives the game actually some depth if you have to organise yourself for such an attack.

Man, we have no problem crafting mythical BPs either nor problem with organisation. That´s not the problem. It´s just about how time consuming it is. If smt is time consuming it does not mean it´s hard, there is nothing hard about sailing 3 hours somewhere, get material and sail back. It´s simply boring.

Difficult to attack someone further away? Again it´s not difficult, just time consuming. 

If something is time consuming you consider it difficult, that´s a mistake. 

I love ship fights in this game. Problem is the game doesn´t allow me to do that more than 3 grids away because it takes insane amount of time to even GET TO SHIPFIGHT. 

 

Edited by Willard
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1 minute ago, Willard said:

Man, we have no problem crafting mythical BPs either nor problem with organisation. That´s not the problem. It´s just about how time consuming it is. If smt is time consuming it does not mean it´s hard, there is nothing hard about sailing 3 hours somewhere, get material and sail back. It´s simply boring.

Difficult to attack someone further away? Again it´s not difficult, just time consuming. 

If something is time consuming you consider it difficult, that´s a mistake. 

I love ship fights in this game. Problem is the game doesn´t allow me to do that more than 3 grids away because it takes insane amount of time to even GET TO SHIPFIGHT. 

 

mythic sail bps? 😛 I was told they do nothing. I think that would help but I am pretty sure they don't want to turn on the sails because a guy cruising up on somebody with +30% on all large speed sails would be insane. Just hit and run all day long. Intercept everybody everywhere! I don't know how you would balance something like that to people that don't have access to that level of BP.

~Lotus

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3 minutes ago, Lotus said:

mythic sail bps? 😛 I was told they do nothing. I think that would help but I am pretty sure they don't want to turn on the sails because a guy cruising up on somebody with +30% on all large speed sails would be insane. Just hit and run all day long. Intercept everybody everywhere! I don't know how you would balance something like that to people that don't have access to that level of BP.

~Lotus

Ye they do nothing, they act (speedwise) like common speed sails 🙂 Btw common speed sails are (again speedwise) better on battle brigs/gallies than mythical weight sails with 145% weight.

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5 minutes ago, Willard said:

Man, we have no problem crafting mythical BPs either nor problem with organisation. That´s not the problem. It´s just about how time consuming it is. If smt is time consuming it does not mean it´s hard, there is nothing hard about sailing 3 hours somewhere, get material and sail back. It´s simply boring.

Difficult to attack someone further away? Again it´s not difficult, just time consuming. 

If something is time consuming you consider it difficult, that´s a mistake. 

I love ship fights in this game. Problem is the game doesn´t allow me to do that more than 3 grids away because it takes insane amount of time to even GET TO SHIPFIGHT. 

 

Are you aware that something can be considerd difficult because it is time-consuming?

How about not focusing on a single phrase but the entire message: it should not be fast and simple to roflstomp an enemy within 3 till 4 hour that is more than 3 grids away?

How about having a real talk like u claim u want to in the original post? Where is the problem in only increasing the minimum-speed? Decreasing zero-wind-time?

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2 minutes ago, Sinappia said:

Are you aware that something can be considerd difficult because it is time-consuming?

How about not focusing on a single phrase but the entire message: it should not be fast and simple to roflstomp an enemy within 3 till 4 hour that is more than 3 grids away?

How about having a real talk like u claim u want to in the original post? Where is the problem in only increasing the minimum-speed? Decreasing zero-wind-time?

And I automatically "roflstomp" enemy if I arrive to their grid or? I want to have a chance to fight them without need to sail 4 hours (there and back) first. 

You know how we play rn? We were fighting Cobra and Dark project armada (both top 10 at EU PvP) for like first 2-3 weeks after wipe. Then we gave up and they gave up because we are about 5 grids away from each other and it takes forever to go to each other. So we did a simple thing, we started to fight closer enemies even if they were weaker than us because we could not fight Cobra and Dark project. We knew they were weaker but because of how long it takes to get to equal opponent we had no other choice if we wanted to do some PvP because most of us (as most of Atlas players) can´t play 24/7 to be able to sail somewhere (and back) for 4 hours and fight. 

That´s it. Everyone complains big tribes aren´t fighting each other and this is a part of problem. At least with us this is why we don´t attack them. It´s simply too far away (and its still only 5 grids, its not that much). 

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5 minutes ago, Ivadovich said:

Your poll is missing PVE - No

Sorry, missclick, edited 🙂 

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19 minutes ago, Willard said:

And I automatically "roflstomp" enemy if I arrive to their grid or? I want to have a chance to fight them without need to sail 4 hours (there and back) first. 

You know how we play rn? We were fighting Cobra and Dark project armada (both top 10 at EU PvP) for like first 2-3 weeks after wipe. Then we gave up and they gave up because we are about 5 grids away from each other and it takes forever to go to each other. So we did a simple thing, we started to fight closer enemies even if they were weaker than us because we could not fight Cobra and Dark project. We knew they were weaker but because of how long it takes to get to equal opponent we had no other choice if we wanted to do some PvP because most of us (as most of Atlas players) can´t play 24/7 to be able to sail somewhere (and back) for 4 hours and fight. 

That´s it. Everyone complains big tribes aren´t fighting each other and this is a part of problem. At least with us this is why we don´t attack them. It´s simply too far away (and its still only 5 grids, its not that much). 

diagonal there 2 servers between u guys. the moment you enter the 3rd server u are on each other servers.

And I ask you again - for the third time now - why can't we discuss simply reducing the no-wind-time. you say you want to discuss the speed, but you keep dodging suggestions about the speed that do not align with what you want.

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No - Sailing speed is perfectly fine the way it is, if anything it is too fast.. a schooner with a large speed sail can rocket along at such speed that it can be out turned by a galleon.

There are also significant problems with 2 or more players all moving in different directions if speed was increased, collisions would occur more often.  It's bad enough now with people around golden islands hitting each other and you want an increase?

It sounds to me, like this is really just a post for pvp light ships to gain a massive advantage over heavily laden ships to enable easier pvp.  In which case, it should be a massive no to increase speed.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Sinappia said:

diagonal there 2 servers between u guys. the moment you enter the 3rd server u are on each other servers.

And I ask you again - for the third time now - why can't we discuss simply reducing the no-wind-time. you say you want to discuss the speed, but you keep dodging suggestions about the speed that do not align with what you want.

Anything which will lead to increase travel time will help. I agree with you in this. No/Bad wind times are insane.

 

10 minutes ago, Martyn said:

No - Sailing speed is perfectly fine the way it is, if anything it is too fast.. a schooner with a large speed sail can rocket along at such speed that it can be out turned by a galleon.

There are also significant problems with 2 or more players all moving in different directions if speed was increased, collisions would occur more often.  It's bad enough now with people around golden islands hitting each other and you want an increase?

It sounds to me, like this is really just a post for pvp light ships to gain a massive advantage over heavily laden ships to enable easier pvp.  In which case, it should be a massive no to increase speed.

No, I just want to increase travel time from 1 grid to another so it isn´t so time consuming. That´s all 🙂 Once you are IN fight speed is totally fine. 

Maybe they could do some form of range check (I don´t know how hard would this be to code). If there is an enemy ship (or SotD) in a certain radius speed would be the same as it is now. Outside of this radius speed would be doubled. This would reduce travel times and keep ship fights balanced.

This + increasing default speed on about 10 knots if you don´t have wind would be nice. 

Edited by Willard

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Posted (edited)

No wind/slack wind is part of life irl.. the game is supposed to be a survival sandbox.. surely slack wind is expected ingame as often as fog, rain, high wind etc.. the wind conditions are simply an alternative timesink to being eaten on land or killed in the case of pvp by other players.  They add more environmental issues to change up the way the game works.  Slack wind is both a problem and a solution for all players in the region.  It's easier to go fishing/diving/swimming/dingying etc in slack wind etc. 

 

If there was a way for say ships to increase speed naturally, regardless of wind conditions, then it should be bypassing the wind changes and directions, which would be a contradiction to the gameplay.

If there was a way to rebuild ships however, to maybe make them ride the water better, thus increasing individually constructed ships to sail faster.. that imo would be excellent.  Perhaps a speed configuration for ships might limit the number of cargo racks for example on a galleon from 6 to 4.  With a speed increase of say 20-30% over normal sailing speeds.

Then in pvp, people could rebuild their attacking ships with the same technology to increase their own speeds as well.

Or perhaps add a crossbreed ship config, for example the Frigate Config which in it's base design includes a hull speed increase, but comes somewhere between the Brig and Galleon in weight carried.  Maybe later on they could add Ships of the Line, with the ability to further increase ship speed and maybe carry more cannons, but only medium cannons for example, allowing large cannons only for brigs and galleons.

Edited by Martyn

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Martyn said:

No wind/slack wind is part of life irl.. the game is supposed to be a survival sandbox.. surely slack wind is expected ingame as often as fog, rain, high wind etc.. the wind conditions are simply an alternative timesink to being eaten on land or killed in the case of pvp by other players.  They add more environmental issues to change up the way the game works.  Slack wind is both a problem and a solution for all players in the region.  It's easier to go fishing/diving/swimming/dingying etc in slack wind etc. 

  

If there was a way for say ships to increase speed naturally, regardless of wind conditions, then it should be bypassing the wind changes and directions, which would be a contradiction to the gameplay.

 If there was a way to rebuild ships however, to maybe make the ride the water better, thus increasing individually constructed ships to sail faster.. that imo would be excellent.  Perhaps a speed configuration for ships might limit the number of cargo racks for example on a galleon from 6 to 4.  With a speed increase of say 20-30% over normal sailing speeds.

Then in pvp, people could rebuild this attacking ships with the same technology to increase their own speeds as well.

Noone goes sailing irl if there is no wind. They don´t need to put it in game which is supposed to be fun 😉

Edited by Willard
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Posted (edited)

Actually, if there is no wind, I take my boat out more often.. but then, I use an outboard.. and I do it, specifically because there is no wind. 

As a general rule, if we're to have high wind situations, ie storms, then we should also get no wind situations as well.

Edited by Martyn

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Martyn said:

No wind/slack wind is part of life irl.. the game is supposed to be a survival sandbox.. surely slack wind is expected ingame as often as fog, rain, high wind etc.. the wind conditions are simply an alternative timesink to being eaten on land or killed in the case of pvp by other players.  They add more environmental issues to change up the way the game works.  Slack wind is both a problem and a solution for all players in the region.  It's easier to go fishing/diving/swimming/dingying etc in slack wind etc.

They are actually not speaking about removing it - just simply reducing the duration of slack/bad wind.

Would really like a reduction of that duration or increased minimum speed during these weather phases.

Edited by Wushi

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I think you are ignoring the fact that you have to go where the wind takes you, not I want to go there because I want to. Even if there is no wind or its in the wrong direction.

Second there are times when you can do other things besides "just get there."

Three hours away and three hours back to do a trip sounds like bad planning, maybe decide what you really need and where you need to go to get it. Maybe they will come up with a trade wind or something, but it will just get exploited by others and it will be used against you. Then it will be a mega OP thread or some other rant to turn the tables in your direction again.

No wind would actually be a terrible thing to remove as it will take the planning/strategy completely out of sailing. Frustrating as it can be it can make for interesting situations with enemies, storms etc. Its not a motorboat/speedboat game.

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29 minutes ago, Willard said:

This + increasing default speed on about 10 knots if you don´t have wind would be nice. 

Do you mean if u sail against wind you should be 10 knots faster? Or how should that work?

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Posted (edited)

While I agree that travel time is bad and boring, there are multiple problems in play here not just speed, and they each come with their own issues as well.

1) We dont know that in game mechanics (speed sail BP) fix the issue we all keep complaining about because they are broken and Grapeshot hasn't fixed it.  And as Grapeshot wont or cant (not a programmer there so I dont know which one) fix a problem we have talked about since the early launch there is no available discussion with the playerbase on how it is working.

2)  Even if that was working it creates a few problem which I hope Grapeshot sees. 

A) The time invested to get BP sails for speed mean that companies that have been playing longer will outmatch potential new players and smaller companies driving them away from the game.

B) Current PVP meta is people completely wipe everything you build/harvest from the game which drives people away because they now have to rebuild from nothing pushing people away from the game.  

This leads to the bigger issue in the end which is more people leave the game and it deepens the problem of distance to travel thus an increase in speed may not be the correct fix.  As with your example the company you want to fight is to far away so you attack weaker companies which you know are not going to be the challenge you want and then creates problems for the smaller companies and potentially loops us further into issues I already put in above.  Maybe the grid is to big for what we are trying to test for them?

The big issue here that I see, is the amount of time it takes to get going into the game/do anything in this game.

-If a mythic ship outclasses a basic ship (which it should) and a new player is sailing their schooner across the sea to find flotsam, maps, etc and is sunk over and over they say screw this game and quit:  *Game design is flawed

-If you build a ship and the current meta means your mythic ship (which took you weeks of farming overall) is possibly going to sink and be lost by a new game addition, lag rubberbanding, just launching it from a shipyard, etc, thus you dont sail cause who wants to build that again:   *Game design is flawed.

-if loosing a fight (or even a game glitch in PVE) means I have lost everything and requires weeks of rebuilding and prevents me from PLAYING your game: *Game design is flawed

Going forward, @Jatheish and @Dollie need to discuss with upcoming patches what the Devs want to see happen with additions, then let us see if it fits their idea, or makes it worse.  "Guys we think vitamins should work this way and give the in game experience this.  End goal is you shouldnt always want to choose eating poop over cooking food"  then let us respond after trying their method.  Also things currently IN the game need to be fixed or removed so we can address things accordingly as well and not have post after post that say "sailing sucks" or "dont touch sailing I love it the way it is"..... we dont even have sailing working the way the game was designed yet (fix bp and let us tell you what's wrong and right) so we are testing an EA with one arm tied behind the back, two eye patches on, and hoping that a flying whale doesnt appear on the horizon.

Edited by Remcott
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Posted (edited)

I will admit that I can often be found "nodding off" during slow sailings.. but I still don't think that just increasing sailing speed is the answer.  Nor do I want more mini games.

And getting the bp +sailing velocity working should be high on the agenda.  I don't even see why bp's even have an rng number on them. Bps should be straight up +10% velocity on Fine, +20% on Jm, +30% on Mw, +40% on Leg and +50% on Mythical.

Simple, straight forward.  And you can then rng wether a bp is + velocity or + durability or turning speed or weight reduction bonus as well.

Also remove the rng number of items from loot, make getting the bp's fairly rare, maybe 1-2 bps every 5-6 kills.  Instead of 50 bps every 3-4 kills. 95% of which I usually throw away.

Edited by Martyn
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sinappia said:

Do you mean if u sail against wind you should be 10 knots faster? Or how should that work?

Zero wind or you go against the wind = you go 10 knots. 

Just make 10 knots a minimum speed of the ship. 

Edited by Willard

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6 hours ago, Willard said:

Hey guys, I would like to discuss if you would like to increase default sailing speed (by a lot).

Sailing is good but gets boring very quick because there is nothing to do while going somewhere except of watching movies/series. I understand it´s highly subjective but as I speaked to my company members this is smt which bothers them too. 

I am a PvP player and rn we have enemies more than 3-4 grids away. Trying to PvP more than 3-4 grids away from your base is insanely time consuming. If you get bad wind you can travel there for hour and half just to get some action. Then you have to think about going back after you get some fights right? It´s another hour and half. Basically you spend much more time sailing (and AFKing) for PvP than actual fighting. I would like devs to think about players who play 3-4 hours a day. Basically they have no chance to do any PvP at all if they don´t have enemies like 2 grids away. 

And it´s not only about PvP. If you want to go for rare materials (like another type of wood which is few grids away from you) or farm blueprints on Golden ruins and you don´t have good wind you probably end up like "hmm, I got only 3 hours to play today, with this bad wind I can´t go those 3 grids away, farm some wood (BPs) and come back, nvm, hopefully tomorrow when I get from job wind will be better".

This game is time consuming, yes, you need to harvest, you need to build a base, tame, breed etc. and it´s completely fine. But sailing, that´s true problem (at least for us) because you got nothing from it, you pretty much AFK while watching movies. This is probably my personal reason why I stop playing.

Map is simply too huge for this low sailing speed. 

That´s a perspective of 850 hours PvP player. I would like to know your opinions on this guys (both PvP and PvE players). Added a poll for this.  

Fast travel non combat sailing speed would be a nice addition to the game. One of the reasons I quit is the slow speed of non combat sailing.

I have laid out a concrete proposal of fast travel mechanic earlier. X3 speed until in range of enemy object, then reverting to normal speed to resolve conflict, and then fast travel can be reactivated. Only to already discovered islands though.

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