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Realist

You guys already know what to do

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Now of course you do. Do you have the fortitude to do it? Who knows.

i have still never to this day strayed that it doesn’t matter what the 4K people think.

what you need to do is very simple. It is really very simple.

 Structures are invulnerable. Meaning you can not attack or wipe a base. If you do that then you will succeed.

all you promised in the main description was sea battles. I never saw “land battles” in the description.

pretty simple really. All tames and ships are vulnerable and bases are invulnerable.

sure the Megas might be bummed but that really doesn’t matter in the first place lol because they are the real problem to begin with.

with only 1k players even on peak there isn’t going to be any kind of economy any time soon, even if they completely got rid of the shop cost and even gave incentives.

i am just really hoping there is a playerbase left by the time that console releases because I do want to play the game. I really don’t care how crappy it is( I will come here and give feedback).

the worst thing is that we are very closely approaching pre wipe numbers. Some might not realize what that means. The reason I say this is because everyone thought that once we hit 3k it was only because the wipe was coming and that everyone would come back.

well with the wipe also came the mega update. We only saw a 2700 increase from the 3000 that were remaining. From that time till now not only has there been another mega update but also there was no wipe needed. Unfortunately out of the 2700 that returned we have now lost another 1300 since then.

i am sure that nobody checks the steam charts as much as I do but over the last week there has been 50 plus people leaving each day(not including weekends, only about 5 each day for weekends). Even weekends have seen a slight decrease though.

i am sure the next mega update will bring the 54k back though 

it is very simple guys. Get rid of wiping. That is all you need to do. That simple.

Edited by Realist
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Well to be honest people who play since day 1 are also a bit overplayed rn 😉 And in this stage of game (EA) people simply don't know what to do. All enemies 3-4 grids away defeated, other enemies are too far away to bother attacking (because noone likes sailing 2 hours just to get to fight and then 2 hours back). 

They should reduce the amount of grids, make map like 10×10 and increase sailing speed so distances are not so insane, at least on PvP servers where you go to fight enemies and really don't want to spend evening sailing there, fight 10 minutes and sail back because you don't have time for more action. It would speed up a game and make it more enjoyable. Sailing is awesome but its slow, very time consuming and a bit boring after several hundreds of hours in game.

The game is good, has a good potential but it really needs to speed up a bit (sailing I mean, other things are just fine) for the sake of people who don't play 24/7 but have like 3-4 hours of playtime everyday. It can't be like "oh I need to go for a wetwood to d4 but im 5 grids away and I have only 3 hours, if wind goes bad I can't go there, grab that wetwood and get back in time. Too bad, im not sailing there". 

Just a personal view of a 900 hours player. 

Edited by Willard

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7 minutes ago, Willard said:

Well to be honest people who play since day 1 are also a bit overplayed rn 😉 And in this stage of game (EA) people simply don't know what to do. All enemies 3-4 grids away defeated, other enemies are too far away to bother attacking (because noone likes sailing 2 hours just to get to fight and then 2 hours back). 

They should reduce the amount of grids, make map like 10×10 and increase sailing speed so distances are not so insane, at least on PvP servers where you go to fight enemies and really don't want to spend evening sailing there, fight 10 minutes and sail back because you don't have time for more action. It would speed up a game and make it more enjoyable. Sailing is awesome but its slow, very time consuming and a bit boring after several hundreds of hours in game.

Exactly Willard. It isn’t both ways. I am I favor of everything you said and I think that all of that would improve the game.

having said that, I am not willing to travel/sail more than 30 minutes  to an hour. If you are talking 2 hours? Nah, I completely see why they say that sailing is boring. If I can’t sail across the whole map in an hour then there is something wrong.

they really need to start thinking about factions and by that I mean the next update. Things aren’t looking good. A massive overhaul is needed to bring back glory 

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14 minutes ago, Willard said:

 All enemies 3-4 grids away defeated, other enemies are too far away to bother attacking (because noone likes sailing 2 hours just to get to fight and then 2 hours back). 

There is your problem right there.

No long running back and forth, no pesky loner hitting your ships in that grid or other.

All neutralized, you wiped out the competition, either gone, allied or whatever.

You did this, because you could, and now there is no-one left.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are the one playing in this way, help the devs, figure out a way so you cant neutralize all those close to you, so you can have more battles, more fun playing this game.

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37 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

There is your problem right there.

No long running back and forth, no pesky loner hitting your ships in that grid or other.

All neutralized, you wiped out the competition, either gone, allied or whatever.

You did this, because you could, and now there is no-one left.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are the one playing in this way, help the devs, figure out a way so you cant neutralize all those close to you, so you can have more battles, more fun playing this game.

So according to you they should remove the ability to defeat / wipe someone, right? Well thats why people play PvP ...

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Most small companies in my area weren't wiped, i'd say they weren't even raided once, they just died of inactivity.

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23 minutes ago, Willard said:

So according to you they should remove the ability to defeat / wipe someone, right? Well thats why people play PvP ...

You are the one the said you had no competition close enough to bother with.

If you want people to fight within easy reach you need to keep viable opponents within that reach, simple as that.

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15 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

You are the one the said you had no competition close enough to bother with.

If you want people to fight within easy reach you need to keep viable opponents within that reach, simple as that.

You cannot "keep" viable opponents man, you fight them, they fight you. They are threat and you have to eliminate that threat if you don't want to risk your ships/tames/base. 

Thats pvp. You cannot play on your 3x3 tile and ignore the rest of 15x15 map because if takes too long to get there.

Edited by Willard

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4 minutes ago, Willard said:

You cannot "keep" viable opponents man, you fight them, they fight you. They are threat and you have to eliminate that threat if you don't want to risk your ships/tames/base. 

Thats pvp. You cannot play on your 3x3 tile and ignore the rest of 15x15 map because if takes too long to get there.

Yet if you eliminate that threat all others are in your words too far to bother with.

Also what you say is right "That's PVP", but only as it is right now.

That's why I said it needs to be figured out, I'm not saying Realists idea is the right way to do it, but some method is needed.

 

Edit: To be honest I don't understand the "if you don't want to risk your ships/tames/base" in a PVP enviroment. I honestly thought that risk was the point of PVP.

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19 minutes ago, Jack Shandy said:

Yet if you eliminate that threat all others are in your words too far to bother with.

Also what you say is right "That's PVP", but only as it is right now.

That's why I said it needs to be figured out, I'm not saying Realists idea is the right way to do it, but some method is needed.

 

Edit: To be honest I don't understand the "if you don't want to risk your ships/tames/base" in a PVP enviroment. I honestly thought that risk was the point of PVP.

Ye but why would you willingly increase that risk by letting your enemies near you? 

My point was it simply takes too long to travel somewhere, period. This topic is not about how you should keep your close enemies alive so you don't have to travel anywhere. 

Edited by Willard

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I agree that the constant base wiping is a serious issue and it's probably one of the main drivers of the player exodus; but I'm not sure that the idea of invulnerable structures is the way to go. IMO it's a matter of economy: a working base can take a small company many hours or days to set up - and then it can all be destroyed in minutes by one idiot with a bear cannon. For the raider, there's really no risk and very little expense - and the potential reward is the entirety of a company's labors.

Reward should always be commensurate with risk, but right not it's not. There are a few ways that this could be corrected: drastically nerf bear cannon range so that NPC-manned defenses can actually hit them on level ground, drastically increase the durability of stone structures versus cannon fire, or drastically reduce the damage of bear cannons. In another thread, a poster suggested a company vault, which could also work. Or hey, how about some sort of 'buried treasure' mechanic for storing valuables when offline? We are pirates after all. 

Edited by Kast

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That doesn't work, as you travel faster your sphere of "nothing to do" will just grow to match.

And Realist's post is about non-destructable bases - very much about not getting wiped / loosing everthing.

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@Realist
Please do check the numbers for PVE also, were the bases are already invulnerable... and also the ships and tames and and and...
You imply that people are staying away from the game because they can be wiped. Not happening on PVE. Still leaving and not coming back...

And by the way, if it takes you 2hrs to get anywhere and you don't, it also means people that want to PVP you that far away will also more likely not come to you - safety in distance keeps wipes low...
Also there is something called a FOB, your are not limited to one SafeSpace(tm) on the whole grid you know...


What keeps them leaving and not coming back is
- This is not the game that was advertised to the people.
- This game is more about anything else but sailing.
- PVP has not a good mechanic and producing meta that is not enjoyable.
- PVE is toxic because it misses PVP options (but that is on the PVE players, they want to be protected from each other and blocking each other in the process).
- As the MegaUpdates show, the Devs not only lost their goals, but are not even trying to get back on track - more tames, more Mega-weapons, more SteamPunk, more unrealistic contend for the advertised setting. (Most people here came for the High Barbarey; Most Ark players for the not so heavy reliance on tames, hell most non-Ark players because they did not like the taming reliance in Ark)
- What killed the main aspect of the game for most is the claiming. People like that generally. But the first iteration at the start was not workable way before the EA release and after that it became a salvage operation with them not knowing what to do, because their best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry...
- That combined with the problem that 95% of the Atlas buyers have no idea what EA means and that they have NO reasonable expectation for content or changes.
- This leads to the problem that everyone and their mother wants to be able to solo their own island now, not understanding that it is not for them, and not even good for them at all. The fun fact is, that currently the pop is so low everyone can have an island if they want to, but they find out the "grind" to keep it is too much for them, so it is not even the limited island numbers
- Then we have the people that don't want to be wiped, so they join a local civilization (aka Ally or directly into Mega) for protection and then find for the protection they are not allowed to attack whoever they want. They want to be protected but not want anyone else to be from them, me, me, me...!
- And oh yeah, the contend is limited this early so at some point there is not much more to do, till they add hopefully interesting things to come back to.

If people would just understand what multiplayer means.
If people would just understand that they do not need a claim, but a reasonable save place to live and therefore have time to enjoy the rest of the content.
This game would - at least with current mechanics and content - get people back.


If you are one guy or a small group get onto an claimed island (of your choosing) and co-live with the others there, they want you.
If the taxes are too high for your liking leave to other island - vote with your flippers...
But keep in mind that the land owner is the one that gives you passive and/or active protection that you cannot handle yourself in most cases and that also cost time and resources - therefore taxes - unless you would be so kind and make meaningful donations?
Also this understanding would help many small companies help each other, if people would just understand the cost benefit. Yes small, not so active companies cannot handle a bigger claim - and don't need to and save their time trying for more fun stuff in the game. But many small companies with one company playing harbor captain can have a claim while being mostly their own boss.

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3 hours ago, Realist said:

Structures are invulnerable. Meaning you can not attack or wipe a base. If you do that then you will succeed.

all you promised in the main description was sea battles. I never saw “land battles” in the description.

Good point and an interesting idea. You are thinking outside the box because this defies conventional approaches. There could of course be problems with this approach but there can be problems with anything. I for one would be interested to see how such an approach played out.

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59 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

 I for one would be interested to see how such an approach played out.

PVE foundation spamming in PVP...?!?!

and

Size of Bases = Claim Flag circle...?!?!

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8 minutes ago, Sheepshooter said:

PVE foundation spamming in PVP...?!?!

and

Size of Bases = Claim Flag circle...?!?!

Why would foundation spamming matter much if the focus was shifted away from land combat and onto sea combat? Let's say that structures are indestructible only if your company owns the land. Okay you own that island, you've decided to foundation pillar spam it, good for you, not sure how that would help you much....

The point is not that Realist's suggestion is a silver bullet. It isn't. The point is that he is trying a different approach to the problem, one that makes a certain amount of sense if the focus of Atlas is intended to be on the water and not on land. It's noteworthy that you quoted part of my post, but not the part where I said there could be problems with this approach. You conveniently chose to ignore that part of the post when responding.

Edited by boomervoncannon

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I'd like to see cities governed and policed by NPC who will blow any aggressor out of the water.

Places where you can go and anchor for the night without getting wiped while offline when you dont have a million corp mates defending you.

I think you don't need to be invulnerable there, but everything and anything involved in any way in the attacking of a player ship should be destroyed as a direct result of any attack against another player.

Think of CONCORD in eve online.

And there should be a very tight time window so that you'd need to bring either a huge amount of ships, or a few really expensive ones in order to kill anything, and you're 100% going to lose all of them.

So there would be some risk vs reward involved.

You can still offline wipe people when you absolutely need to, but it will cost you.

And the cost for this need to be so high that it is absolutely impossible to "outgrow" them.

Even mega corps should not be able to do this on a daily basis.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

It's noteworthy that you quoted part of my post, but not the part where I said there could be problems with this approach. You conveniently chose to ignore that part of the post when responding.

you saw me show you how this approach would 'play out', which basically confirmed your statement that there 'could be problems with this' - alot of problems...

as for your suggestion to play around more on the ships if you cannot play anymore on land due to the obvious problems... well you need a shipyard and support structures to even build a ship...
and if you sink while not having a land base to go back to, you lost everything...

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It's a very niche game. There is such an extreme amount of content missing to break out of that to grow population, the die hard will have to suffer extreme low population with blind faith that the devs will pull it off while the trolls run around saying how right they are about the game's dead and how dumb the remaining players are. Welcome to niche.

 

I love the company I play with and the companies around us. What's really hard to accept is knowing without Atlas, there really isn't anything we can all enjoy like this together. This has the open world of am mmo (vs Ark servers) and the freedom of a sandbox on a grand scale. 

 

So, where are the players going??

No where. They're waiting for the game to get good. Or the next game to come out. 

But there's countless players just killing time in random games, waiting for Atlas (or another conquest game) to have enough content to enjoy.

 

 

This game needs more than what it has for farming and gear grind.

Make us run pve dungeons for more than 1 unlock that we never need again.

Make resources more uniform across settler islands in multiple biomes with rare resources that need to be farmed on islands you CAN'T build on. You could remove half the lawless tiles and switch them over.

Force players into the water to gain experience and materials. Create conflict over resource rich areas that aren't people's bases.

 

Make leveling options other than boring mob farming. Repeatable quests in areas that drive conflict with different scales of risk/reward.

 

More dungeons like the snowman but much earlier on with reasons to go back. Even something on the starter island, the classic "rats under the tavern" quest to get people more involved.

 

We have an empty shell. To be an mmo, we need all the fluff.

Edited by Pallist
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4 hours ago, Sheepshooter said:

@Realist
Please do check the numbers for PVE also, were the bases are already invulnerable... and also the ships and tames and and and...
You imply that people are staying away from the game because they can be wiped. Not happening on PVE. Still leaving and not coming back...

And by the way, if it takes you 2hrs to get anywhere and you don't, it also means people that want to PVP you that far away will also more likely not come to you - safety in distance keeps wipes low...
Also there is something called a FOB, your are not limited to one SafeSpace(tm) on the whole grid you know...


What keeps them leaving and not coming back is
- This is not the game that was advertised to the people.
- This game is more about anything else but sailing.
- PVP has not a good mechanic and producing meta that is not enjoyable.
- PVE is toxic because it misses PVP options (but that is on the PVE players, they want to be protected from each other and blocking each other in the process).
- As the MegaUpdates show, the Devs not only lost their goals, but are not even trying to get back on track - more tames, more Mega-weapons, more SteamPunk, more unrealistic contend for the advertised setting. (Most people here came for the High Barbarey; Most Ark players for the not so heavy reliance on tames, hell most non-Ark players because they did not like the taming reliance in Ark)
- What killed the main aspect of the game for most is the claiming. People like that generally. But the first iteration at the start was not workable way before the EA release and after that it became a salvage operation with them not knowing what to do, because their best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry...
- That combined with the problem that 95% of the Atlas buyers have no idea what EA means and that they have NO reasonable expectation for content or changes.
- This leads to the problem that everyone and their mother wants to be able to solo their own island now, not understanding that it is not for them, and not even good for them at all. The fun fact is, that currently the pop is so low everyone can have an island if they want to, but they find out the "grind" to keep it is too much for them, so it is not even the limited island numbers
- Then we have the people that don't want to be wiped, so they join a local civilization (aka Ally or directly into Mega) for protection and then find for the protection they are not allowed to attack whoever they want. They want to be protected but not want anyone else to be from them, me, me, me...!
- And oh yeah, the contend is limited this early so at some point there is not much more to do, till they add hopefully interesting things to come back to.

If people would just understand what multiplayer means.
If people would just understand that they do not need a claim, but a reasonable save place to live and therefore have time to enjoy the rest of the content.
This game would - at least with current mechanics and content - get people back.


If you are one guy or a small group get onto an claimed island (of your choosing) and co-live with the others there, they want you.
If the taxes are too high for your liking leave to other island - vote with your flippers...
But keep in mind that the land owner is the one that gives you passive and/or active protection that you cannot handle yourself in most cases and that also cost time and resources - therefore taxes - unless you would be so kind and make meaningful donations?
Also this understanding would help many small companies help each other, if people would just understand the cost benefit. Yes small, not so active companies cannot handle a bigger claim - and don't need to and save their time trying for more fun stuff in the game. But many small companies with one company playing harbor captain can have a claim while being mostly their own boss.

Nope nothing like pve. Ships, tames and players can be killed pvp just not buildings, very simple 

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11 minutes ago, Realist said:

Nope nothing like pve. Ships, tames and players can be killed pvp just not buildings, very simple 

*Walls off whole island* So I win right?

~Lotus

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3 hours ago, boomervoncannon said:

Good point and an interesting idea. You are thinking outside the box because this defies conventional approaches. There could of course be problems with this approach but there can be problems with anything. I for one would be interested to see how such an approach played out.

I truly think it would be a success.

come down the rabbit hole a little further. Since people won’t be able to be wiped they will make easily be able to build ships back up and get back into the pvp scene which would be on the water. Of course players/tames/ships can be killed though.

It would be good for the leaderboards as well. Top players/companies could be recognized for players/ships killed pirate style instead of flags dropped/land owned. Showing who the most dangerous pirates are.

i believe that trade would actually increase as well. When people get wiped they simply have nothing to trade. Also, when the main focus of pvp in on the water trade ships could hire other ships to help them get to their destination safely because it would be a dangerous journey.

there are other things as well but I don’t want this to be too long. 

2 minutes ago, Lotus said:

*Walls off whole island* So I win right?

~Lotus

If you want to be stuck on your island and never leave your base. Sure I guess you won, if that is what you call winning 

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Behe gates..

 

 

Look, the idea of invulnerable structures 24/7 is stupid.

Drop it

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2 hours ago, Pallist said:

It's a very niche game. There is such an extreme amount of content missing to break out of that to grow population, the die hard will have to suffer extreme low population with blind faith that the devs will pull it off while the trolls run around saying how right they are about the game's dead and how dumb the remaining players are. Welcome to niche.

 

I love the company I play with and the companies around us. What's really hard to accept is knowing without Atlas, there really isn't anything we can all enjoy like this together. This has the open world of am mmo (vs Ark servers) and the freedom of a sandbox on a grand scale. 

 

So, where are the players going??

No where. They're waiting for the game to get good. Or the next game to come out. 

But there's countless players just killing time in random games, waiting for Atlas (or another conquest game) to have enough content to enjoy.

 

 

This game needs more than what it has for farming and gear grind.

Make us run pve dungeons for more than 1 unlock that we never need again.

Make resources more uniform across settler islands in multiple biomes with rare resources that need to be farmed on islands you CAN'T build on. You could remove half the lawless tiles and switch them over.

Force players into the water to gain experience and materials. Create conflict over resource rich areas that aren't people's bases.

 

Make leveling options other than boring mob farming. Repeatable quests in areas that drive conflict with different scales of risk/reward.

 

More dungeons like the snowman but much earlier on with reasons to go back. Even something on the starter island, the classic "rats under the tavern" quest to get people more involved.

 

We have an empty shell. To be an mmo, we need all the fluff.

All good ideas. I am giving the invulnerable bases idea because it is a lot more simple for them to do that.

i wish they would add in everything you said, I just don’t think they will.

not arguing with you, just keeping it simple for them.

bot saying the game is dead. I don’t like using that word because everyone else uses it. I am very concerned about the numbers dropping the way they are though. It is fine to be optimistic but I don’t see all 58k coming back regardless 

1 hour ago, Pallist said:

Behe gates..

 

 

Look, the idea of invulnerable structures 24/7 is stupid.

Drop it

No, I will not drop it. It is probably the only thing that would work. 

Just like at lotus said walking off an island? Why wall off the island if the base is invulnerable? 

You could actually get rid of the need to wall off an island which would also get rid of the eyesores of walled off islands. Yet another perk 

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3 minutes ago, Realist said:

All good ideas. I am giving the invulnerable bases idea because it is a lot more simple for them to do that.

i wish they would add in everything you said, I just don’t think they will.

not arguing with you, just keeping it simple for them.

bot saying the game is dead. I don’t like using that word because everyone else uses it. I am very concerned about the numbers dropping the way they are though. It is fine to be optimistic but I don’t see all 58k coming back regardless 

No, I will not drop it. It is probably the only thing that would work. 

Just like at lotus said walking off an island? Why wall off the island if the base is invulnerable? 

You could actually get rid of the need to wall off an island which would also get rid of the eyesores of walled off islands. Yet another perk 

I can wall in all my boats, tames, players and attack people but they can't attack me, everybody would then wall in and then there would be no reward to PvP which would cost a huge amount of players.

~Lotus

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