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TyGeR_STD

Remove speed penalty from cargo containers

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I believe we should remove the speed penalty from cargo racks.  seems like they are useless at the current state.  most everyone I've seen use them will add them, see how slow they go with them then removes them.  It seems like such an awesome idea, hate to see them not being used.

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Posted (edited)

Considering how much more weight you can place on a ship there has to be a penalty.  If I were to put the same amount of weight the container allows me to put on the ship I would sink.  If I used less I would be crawling.  Put max weight on a boat and compare its speed versus the speed of a full cargo rack.  I think its worth it. 

Edited by DocHolliday

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Posted (edited)

2 on a galleon is about 13% or about 2 knots off full speed, definitely worth the trade off.

saying that, I however would never put the full 6 on that's too much.

I run 4 speed 2 weight sails and 2 cargo racks, and can run at 13 knots with 25k metal on board.

Edited by Jack Shandy

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I am sure they are tracking the number of players using them and in what quantity. If nobody is using them they will probably adjust them in a future patch.

I have one permanently on my Galleon, and it is almost constantly filled with something. Based on other Galleons I have seen since the patch, that seems very common. 6% is almost nothing. On a trade mission, I will consider mounting two temporarily but no more.

I think most players can justify one on an all-purpose Brig, but no more. 10% is noticeable.

Schooners are pretty rough with just one. I don't see many of those. 20% feels bad, and puts you into a danger zone with cyclones and zone edge ships of the damned.

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Posted (edited)

TL;DR:  I like the cargo racks. Only use a couple and don’t fill up the ship as well, and you get most of your speed with most of your cargo capacity. You can’t have your Kate and Edith too.

We recently tried the cargo containers out on our galleon. I thought that upgraded weight sails would be better than the cargo racks.

What we ended up doing was putting two cargo containers on the galleon and filling them to maximum capacity. Our galleon was level 31 with all points into weight, so it had a max weight of 39,000 kg. With the fully loaded cargo racks, our weight was about 16,000. kg.

Not filling up the galleon itself, we were not much slower heading back as we were going there. If we had loaded up the ship itself,  I know we would have been much slower, and I don’t think the upgraded weight sails would have helped anywhere near as much.

At 16,000 kg, we were well under 50% weight. If we had just put the weight in the resource bin, we would have been over 30,000 kg which would have slowed us down significantly.

Having upgraded weight sails (we have a BP for masterwork 123%), I had thought to make two for the galleon. That would have made our capacity just under 49,000 kg. That 30,000 kg is still over 50% weight, so you slow down because of that, and the weight sails are already slower than speed sails. You’re taking two performance hits.

I definitely think they’re worth using, just don’t try to weigh down your ship like you didn’t have them, or fill every available slot with them, and you’ll be quite happy with the cargo racks.

I now want to try out a stripped down cargo schooner and see how I like that as an alternative to using a galleon.

Edited by Salty Del

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If you have a gallion its not that bad with 3 or less you can still outrun sotd and that's all i need ona transport gallion. If anything they should half the penalty so you can use all the racks and still outrun sotd.

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7 hours ago, Sleepinator2000 said:

Schooners are pretty rough with just one. I don't see many of those. 20% feels bad, and puts you into a danger zone with cyclones and zone edge ships of the damned.

Just after they released them, I've used them to do a couple quick 2 sector runs of rare mats, and being able to carry 8000 kilos with an under 40% weight stock schooner even with the penalty was pretty sweet. 

 

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Then all that needs to happen is that if you are using speed sails / handling sails then it's a toss up between ship speeds and weight limitations...

However:

To WEIGHT sails, why not in addition to being able to carry more weight anyway, you get a BUFF that negates the penalty on cargo crates?  Not many people sail with >2 weight sails anyway....   By doing this, you're bringing the usefulness and a benefit to the neglected sails back to the game, and, I dare say, what an entrance for these poor under used little sailies aw 😞

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14 hours ago, Vorxius said:

Then all that needs to happen is that if you are using speed sails / handling sails then it's a toss up between ship speeds and weight limitations...

However:

To WEIGHT sails, why not in addition to being able to carry more weight anyway, you get a BUFF that negates the penalty on cargo crates?  Not many people sail with >2 weight sails anyway....   By doing this, you're bringing the usefulness and a benefit to the neglected sails back to the game, and, I dare say, what an entrance for these poor under used little sailies aw 😞

^^ this 1x Size appropriate weight sail negates 1 cargo box debuff easy done

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Posted (edited)

Here is how I run 6 cargo containers on a galleon. Its ugly but I can still pull 10+ knots in a strong wind.  For this example we are going to pretend to be needing to harvest iridium.

1) build the frame and then place planks, I went with solid not gunports. 

2)Only put 3 decks down.  I went with a spacing ro allow repair but do what you want. 

3) 6 speed sails, steering wheel, larder, resource chest, bed and ramps anywhere needed.  Again less is more so remember it doesnt need to be pretty.  

4) build 6 cargo crates but dont equip them yet.  Make sure they get on the ship somewhere for later (chest, etc).  grab your crew for sailing, and head to whatever you want a lot of.  We are looking for iridium and found a metric ton in i11.  We got there without the 40% loss from 6 crates.

5) after anchoring, place set down your 6 crates and fill them up.  We now have 6 cargo crates of iridium, and are around 50% weight capacity 

6) from the testing I've done 50% weight on ship seems to be the point where the speed loss from increased weight outweigh the 6 crates.  If you cant keep it below 50% drop a crate till you are at or below 50 ship weight.  Then sail back home hugging server walls.

Edited by Remcott

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:36 PM, TyGeR_STD said:

I believe we should remove the speed penalty from cargo racks.  seems like they are useless at the current state.  most everyone I've seen use them will add them, see how slow they go with them then removes them.  It seems like such an awesome idea, hate to see them not being used.

They should not have a speed penalty at all. They will see how much people hate it and they will get rid of it lol

there might be 4K people that like certain things but that means there is millions that don’t lol

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LOL, please make the calculation with a Schooner.
Adding two Cargos to it give you 16.000 additional units on a ship that can only hold 9.000 units (base) for max 3.200 units.
Which under normal conditions would sink you right there,
While giving you the option to move 16.000 for only 3.200 units of your actual 9.000 units total, at just 40% less of what your speed would be with just 3.200 units of cargo added to the weight of the ship...
That is what people do not understand, it is 40% less of whatever slow speed you would normally have at same weight, NOT 40% less of the top speed of the empty, zero weight, ship.
So instead of going say 10 knots you are going 6 knots at 5-times the cargo weight. Not 10 knots minus (24knots max speed time 0.4 = 9,6knots) = 0,4 knots.
The trick is to add the cargo rack only if you have to actually move stuff, with it being useful way before the rack is fully loaded.

Just check if you are still fast enough for your needs, but do understand you can move way more at same speed than without it or go faster at same amount of cargo carried.

Also the trick is pretty easy with the new weight sails. You add those AFTER you figured out the base weight of the ship (like empty cargo, or fully combat ready, so on) and than add a weight sail for the ship weight were you are actually faster than with the all speed sail meta.
If you then need to carry extra cargo you add the racks temporary giving you a significant speed boost compared to trying to haul without them...

With the changes now weight sails are viable finally - or at least you look way closer to your minimum weight requirements.
Also has the added benefit of less lag, because you no longer spam your ship with structure and their weight. Same is the only benefit with torpedoes, because against them speed is life, and weight = structure is death...

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All that needs to happen is that by installing a weight sail, you get a buff that negates the speed penalty of the cargo racks.  if you add yet more weight sails, then you can carry even more.  Pure cargo freighters will be possible.

The problem at the moment for me is that I need to stop playing to work out:

latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%2BJ(x)%2

before I fully understand at that moment in time, if a cargo container will be helpful.... then, every time I add a stack of wood, to ensure I'm running at optimum.  The uncounterable speed penalty on cargo containers is an unnecessary addition.  Weight sails = cargo.   Speed sails = speed..  handling sails = handling.  It's almost too easy.

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28 minutes ago, Vorxius said:

All that needs to happen is that by installing a weight sail, you get a buff that negates the speed penalty of the cargo racks.  if you add yet more weight sails, then you can carry even more.  Pure cargo freighters will be possible.

The problem at the moment for me is that I need to stop playing to work out:

latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%2BJ(x)%2

before I fully understand at that moment in time, if a cargo container will be helpful.... then, every time I add a stack of wood, to ensure I'm running at optimum.  The uncounterable speed penalty on cargo containers is an unnecessary addition.  Weight sails = cargo.   Speed sails = speed..  handling sails = handling.  It's almost too easy.

I object strongly to the posting of such obscene formulas on the grounds that they make my head asplode. At the very least put a prominent warning the way people do before spoilers, pr0n and the nearby use of explosives. Innocent people don't need to be exposed to such things.

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4 minutes ago, boomervoncannon said:

I object strongly to the posting of such obscene formulas on the grounds that they make my head asplode. At the very least put a prominent warning the way people do before spoilers, pr0n and the nearby use of explosives. Innocent people don't need to be exposed to such things.

I did have a back up one ready!    😄

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